LXDE environment question - support and Lubuntu 20.04 or newer

Asked by Piotr on 2021-02-11

Dear Launchpad Community,

I have question to LXDE environment. I know that support for Lubuntu 18.04.5 will be ended soon. This was last system with LXDE environment in Ubuntu family. I want to know why Lubuntu Team abandoned this environment? I know that LXQt is newer but I have also old computer and this environment can be too heavy. So is a question to community. LXDE is still support by creators? I finded that other distros in they new version of the systems always upload images with LXDE environment. So it is the question. This environment (LXDE) have still updates? If I will install this on other distros someone make update and fix bug of this environment? I found official website but I don't know if it still work and if it safe? --> https://lxde.org/

Can you answer me?

Question information

Language:
English Edit question
Status:
Solved
For:
Ubuntu Edit question
Assignee:
No assignee Edit question
Solved by:
Piotr
Solved:
2021-02-19
Last query:
2021-02-19
Last reply:
2021-02-12

This question was reopened

Bernard Stafford (bernard010) said : #1

That is a link for the Lubuntu 20.04 with LXQt DE on it. Yes it is safe.
Lubuntu 18.04 was the last version to have LXDE DE on it, as for Lubuntu.
LXDE is still in the Ubuntu package stable repository.
In a terminial : sudo apt-get install lxde
This installs the LXDE enviroment.
https://packages.ubuntu.com/focal/lxde

Piotr (peterq94) said : #2

Okay, but this LXDE environment have support to April 2021 for bionic so for focal I think that this will be not updated. After this date this packages will be not supported? If it is true this is for me useless.

My question was to LXDE creators or people who followed this project. I don't know if it still supported project by creators. On wikipedia I can see that latest version of this environment was 0.99.2 version, uploaded 22 November 2016; 4 years ago

So this environment is old and is not supported by creators because 0.99.2 version was uploaded in 2016 year. Now we have 2021 year. So my question is simple - The LXDE Team is exist and they works on this environment or this project is abandoned?

Bernard Stafford (bernard010) said : #3

Not according to the forum for lxde. Their is more than 40+ Linux distros that use lxde.
As long as lxde is in the Ubuntu stable repository it is supported and accessible.

Piotr (peterq94) said : #4

Okay, it is accesible but this doesn't mean that is supported by creators.

This is quote from wikipedia: "...[the] Lubuntu team has successfully made the transition to a modern, still lightweight and minimal desktop environment. LXDE looks like [it has been] abandoned and it is a good thing to move away [from it] to an active project" - Dimitrios Savvopoulos

So my question was simple. I must know if LXDE team always work on improve code for this environment. I hope that someone know something about it.

Manfred Hampl (m-hampl) said : #5

If you want to know the status of the LXDE project, then the Ubuntu pages are not the right address for asking.
You probably better look at https://lxde.org/ and the pages linked from there, e.g. https://forum.lxde.org/

Piotr (peterq94) said : #6

Yes but my question was to Lubuntu Team. I think that people from Lubuntu can be here in Launchpad. They cooperation close with LXDE Team so they can answer for my questions.

Piotr (peterq94) said : #8

Lubuntu.net is not the official website and this are not people from Lubuntu. Maybe you should not answer if you have not sure what you doing?

Bernard Stafford (bernard010) said : #9

https://lubuntu.me/
Is the Official Site for Lubuntu.
https://discourse.lubuntu.me/
I accept your apogee.
Thank You.

Manfred Hampl (m-hampl) said : #10

You are right, the address given was not correct.
The official address for Lubuntu is https://lubuntu.me/
Please look there.

Piotr (peterq94) said : #11

Ok, my last question. Lubuntu Team is registered here on Launchpad? Maybe someone knows?

Manfred Hampl (m-hampl) said : #12

see the related wiki document on lubuntu.me
https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/lubuntu-dev/
pointing at https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-dev

Piotr (peterq94) said : #13

Previous post should be my last but I think that you can answer me for next question. On launchpad I can write message to other members? Example I found member from Lubuntu Developers. I can contacted with him by launchpad website? Is it possible?

Piotr (peterq94) said : #14

Okay, I can see now. But I have offtopic question. When I write post on launchpad I get messages to my e-mail. I don't want get e-mails from launchpad. I can't see any option to unsubscribe this. Next I want to ask you about contact by launchpad. I can see that if I will contact with someone else he can be look my e-mail adress. I don't want it so if it possible to contact by launchpad without this?

Manfred Hampl (m-hampl) said : #15

"I can't see any option to unsubscribe this."

Look at your question document at launchpad https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/695488

In the top right area you see "Subscribers". All the users who are listed there get a notification when there is a change on the question document.

Your own name is not shown in that list, but for yourself there is a "unsubscribe" or "subscribe" button.
The creator of a question is automatically subscribed. If you do not want notifications, how do you know about new answers to your question?

And no, it is not possible to contact somebody via launchpad without revealing the own e-mail address.
What do you expect, how should that person answer without knowing your contact details?

You could consider IRC with a pseudonym.

Piotr (peterq94) said : #16

Thank you very much for help. You asked me how I will know about new answers of this topic. I will answer you. I visit this website manually (bookmarks in webrowser). To second question about e-mail and contact. On the forums of the internet is something like private message and I can send this anonymous.

I must contact with LXDE Team because I can see anybode can't tell me about support of this environment so this topic is ended.

Piotr (peterq94) said : #17

Thanks Manfred Hampl, that solved my question.

Walter Lapchynski (wxl) said : #18

The Lubuntu team just received an email from the OP to which I replied to. I will point out that they say they sometimes have problems with email so I'm putting this response here.

I would have done this in the first place but I couldn't find it as I was looking within the context of the Lubuntu project. I have a problem with Answers as I can't seem to modify how to get notifications nor does it seem like I can turn it off (which is what I'd rather do, honestly).

Anyways, the OP asked several questions about the status of LXDE and Openbox and the value of LXQt, especially within the context of Lubuntu Development. Similar to the original question, but expanded a bit. So I replied the following:

---

And I should also mention "dead" in the context of a software project
means one of two things:

 1. Totally abanonded in which case there will come a time that payments
 lapse on their web resources and the website goes away, which hasn't
 happened here.

 2. Development has slowed to a crawl, such that it's not really growing
 as a project at all. In some cases, this can mean "stable" and in
 others it can mean something more like "ignored but not forgotten."
 Both are relevant here.

We've abandoned LXDE for lots of reasons, but development for it has
slowed heavily. They're still struggling to make their system GTK3
compatible, when GTK4 is out and GTK2 is now deprecated. Also, it's not
heavier, as the original developers (PCMan himself) found when they
started using Qt libraries as an alternative to the original push to
port to GTK3. LXDE isn't dead, but it's slowed to the point that it
might as well be. LXQt is heavily developed and the developers are very
responsive.

Openbox is another issue. There's going to come a point where we will
likely have to switch away from it. For now, though, it's considered
"complete," i.e. the developers did what they set out to do and have no
plans for future additions. They do follow up on bugs rather promptly,
though, so there's nothing wrong with that.

Really none of the major contributors to either project will be found on
Launchpad. If you want to communicate with them, you can go to their
upstream contact resources. None of them are Lubuntu developers, though,
so they won't be able to answer the question of why.

However, you shouldn't take moving from LXDE as a desperate attempt. It
was a conscious decision when comparing LXDE and LXQt. LXQt simply
provided a better experience. That said, I encourage you to switch. It's
an improvement.

---

Looking it over again, I should add one other clarification about Openbox that I think is actually particularly relevant: LXDE is essentially built around Openbox and Openbox is the window manager of the desktop environment whereas LXQt is *expressly* window manager agnostic, meaning the desktop environment doesn't have a default window manager. I, myself, recently submitted a commit to LXQt to further cement that, removing some logic dealing with the default Openbox configuration. This is actually a big plus because it means LXQt can be more directly applied to different situations.

Piotr (peterq94) said : #19

@Walter Lapchynski (wxl), thanks for your answer. I apreciate that you answer here on Launchpad because like I said I have problem with my e-mail so find your message is difficult.

I asked you about LXDE because Lubuntu Team was close to this project so it is known. Why I asked about it? I afraid that my old PC can be slower on LXqt because I heard that is it. I have only 2 GB ram memory. LXQt probably needs more RAM and CPU usage? If LXDE is not dead but I can't get quick updates this is mean that this environment is not for me. I want to have quickly response from creators for fixing bug.

Thank you for answer.

Walter Lapchynski (wxl) said : #20

I am now monitoring this question, so I will comment as needed. For future reference, you can find ways to contact us at https://lubuntu.me/links. I think since email is problematic for you, the Discourse Forum might be a good choice.

Back to the topic, LXDE developers are involved in packaging the Debian packages, which are synced in Ubuntu. So LXDE will likely continue to be updated in the Ubuntu archives. It's just that the Lubuntu Team is not going to be involved in that. If you want to keep using 18.04, you can keep using it until Ubuntu stops supporting the archive for it, but that will mean that when you need support, you would reach out to Ubuntu resources, not Lubuntu ones. The unfortunate aspect there is that they will be far less familiar with LXDE, so it will be harder to find help.

I can't say that the Lubuntu Team was really any closer to their upstream than we are now. The main developers of LXDE were not in the Lubuntu Team and vice versa. So it follows for LXQt. That's not to say that the Lubuntu Team wasn't involved upstream (as we are now), but weren't the people doing the heavy lifting (still the case).

Regarding performance, the whole reason PCMan started developing LXQt was because of improved performance, so your concerns are unfounded. For more on this and the history of the subject see:
https://github.com/lxqt/lxqt/wiki/History

Put another way, you have no reason to stay with LXDE over LXQt because of your RAM.

Piotr (peterq94) said : #21

@Walter Lapchynski (wxl), thanks for your second answer. It is helpful but like I said I have old computer. If RAM is not problem I am afraid for my CPU performance on LXQt because on LXDE I have 70-90% CPU usage when I watch youtube 720p video. So it is a problem with performance. I think that PCMan did test with newer machine than my so maybe on newer machine LXQt is not slower. I readed article on github which you send link but I didn't read test with performance because this linked to blog of LXDE.org website but I don't know if this website is still available and work properly. I readed on lubuntu.me "Taking a new direction" article and this is not looks good for older machines. For Example is mentioned Phenom X3 but this have much more performance than my CPU. For my unit each % of performance is important.

I have problem with tearing on my Lubuntu 18.04.5. I don't know how I can fix it. I have radeon driver. I heard that LXQt have built-in compton? How it works and how fix problem with tearing without any 3rd party software. I want to do this by driver. Do you know how to do this? This is problem with environment or the driver? Maybe this is problem with LXDE?

Walter Lapchynski (wxl) said : #22

The blog article is actually linked on the history article I sent, which is why I sent it. If you read it you'll see some fancy new machine isn't used for testing, but a really severely limited virtual machine:
https://blog.lxde.org/2014/05/09/some-numbers-about-lxqt-for-those-who-are-curious/

Regarding our blog article, I think you misunderstand it. It means that we continue to be light, but we don't make every decision on being light no matter what. For example, at one time we focused really hard at making sure we could fit on a CD or supporting architectures no one else supports. That doesn't apply to you.

Again, put simply: you're not going to find a LXQt Lubuntu negatively impacting your workflow. In fact, I think you will find it will improve it.

YouTube is always going to be a resource hog, because it is. The modern web ultimately has really high system requirements and it's always going to be a challenge for a resource limited machine. You should look into youtube-dl rather than watching it in your browser. In fact, anything you can do to offload things out of your browser (example: web mail) is likely a good idea.

Neither LXDE or LXQt has a built in compositor, but that's the cause of screen tearing. Add a compositor and it solves the problem. There's lots of choices but compton (which itself seems to have stalled development but was sort of forked and rewritten as picom, but that's a story for a later date) and xcompmgr would be the two lightweight choices.

Piotr (peterq94) said : #23

@Walter Lapchynski (wxl), thank you again for your answer and support. I apreciate this. I found that Mr Simon Quigley which is person from Lubuntu project is also on github in LXDE page (section People). This is mean that this person works also in LXDE team?

I also have question to Youtube and Lubuntu 18.04.5. I noticed that this works fine because I can watch live videos. On Ubuntu 18.04.5 I can't do this because is a shown information that I can't play video in my browser. Example I can't watch live transmission from NASA channel on YouTube. Other YouTube videos works fine except live transmissions. What is reason? I think that Lubuntu have some packages that is not included in Ubuntu. You know what is this package which help with YouTube problem on Ubuntu?

To the V-Sync I have also problem on Ubuntu. I also have tearing. This is also the same problem like Lubuntu? I heard that on Wayland this can fix problem with tearing? Maybe I should use it instead X11?

Walter Lapchynski (wxl) said : #24

Simon and myself have been involved in LXDE in the past, as I said before, but we've never been significant contributors. Simon was pretty instrumental in the switch to LXQt, so you can rest assured he's not going to have any sympathy for switching back to LXDE XD

The Firefox browser in Ubuntu and Lubuntu are the same, so there's no difference in their ability to watch any YouTube videos. There may be some additional plugins required, but that would be the case for both. In neither case does that relate to software packages in the Ubuntu archives, but those in the Firefox archive. (the same would follow for Chromium). I would urge you to post a question to AskUbuntu about this citing the specific video and the specific errors you get and perhaps someone can help you fix it. It should be nothing specific to Lubuntu.

I would urge you, furthermore, to discontinue any further inquiries in this question. The original question has long since been answered. You should use standard support methods for actual support issues: https://lubuntu.me/links

Finally, Wayland has a long way to go before it's the default anywhere, including Ubuntu. Don't get ahead of yourself.

Piotr (peterq94) said : #25

Mr Walter Lapchynski,

Thank you for your support. This is my last post in this subject. I will try to contact with someone from LXDE to check if is still live but probably I will switch to LXQt.

But I have last question. I have problem on Ubuntu with YouTube live stream videos but on Lubuntu I don't have this problem. I checked and I have these packages installed by default for Lubuntu 18.04.5:

libwvstreams4.6-extras/bionic,now 4.6.1-11 amd64
libwvstreams4.6-base/bionic,now 4.6.1-11
ffmpegthumbnailer/bionic,now 2.1.1-0.1build1 amd64
libffmpegthumbnailer4v5/bionic,now 2.1.1-0.1build1 amd64

Above packages I don't have on Ubuntu 18.04.5 so maybe this is the problem? Maybe these packages will fix my problem on Ubuntu. I think that Ubuntu is comes without necessary packages by default so this can be problem. What do you think?

Of course I create subject to community so probably I will get solution but you have experience so I think that you know what is the problem.

Thank you for everything! :)

P.S. You name looks polish. I am from Poland so this caught my attention.

Walter Lapchynski (wxl) said : #26

wvstreams is a networking library, so I doubt it. ffmpegthumbnailer is just for thumbnails, so that's totally irrelevant.

And yep, I'm nominally Polish. My grandfather immigrated to the US directly from Poland. Sadly, I never learned Polish from him, but I do know how to make my grandma's pierogi!

Piotr (peterq94) said : #27

Previous post should be my last like I mentioned but I want to thank you very much for your support and help with packages from Lubuntu. I am beginner with this distribution so I have a lot of question. I like do everything to increase my knowledge.

It is nice to talk with person with polish blood :) You don't speak polish so this is nothing special I think because polish is not international language and it is not necessary but my english is so weak and maybe sometimes people can't understand me. I learned english only in school in 3 years. I readed some travel books about USA and I love this country! If you want to learn something in polish I can teach you if you want :) I like pierogi but I prefer better ogórki kiszone ;)

Walter Lapchynski (wxl) said : #28

Happy to help. Feel free to get in touch directly and we can talk more!