Ubuntu

why doesn't ubuntu include an implementation of debian experimental?

Asked by jbcandid

I'm aware that experimental has the name it does for a reason- and furthermore that although ubuntu is debian-based, many of the packages require modifications to work...otherwise I should be able to have no problem adding the debian experimental repository myself (actually I felt like risking it- but hit a bump because I don't know the debian experimental gpg code) but there are tons of programs only available in debian experimental, or ones that would only fall under that category. Songbird, Freeciv, KDE4, VLC 0.9, maybe a reactos qemu package. Well, most of those probably aren't in debian experimental, but if they were anywhere that's where they'd be.

I'm sure there are plenty of people wanting to test, or possibly actively use the above. just issue a warning that no responsibility will be taken for the computer crashing. I haven't donated a dime or ounce of effort, so I don't expect to be taken seriously....well at least add freeciv ASAP, because (assuming no bugs are found) the final 2.1 release will be uploaded today.

Question information

Language:
English Edit question
Status:
Solved
For:
Ubuntu Edit question
Assignee:
No assignee Edit question
Solved by:
Witold Krakowski
Solved:
Last query:
Last reply:
Revision history for this message
Witold Krakowski (wkrakowski-gmail) said : 		#1

Well, the software you name is available for Ubuntu too.
There are KDE4 packages regularly published on the kubuntu.org page.
Others are available from their homepages, so if you really want them
you can install them from .deb packages.
Otherwise just install a debian and change apt repositories to experimental and
issue a apt-get update && dist-upgrade.

Regards,

Witold

Revision history for this message
jbcandid (jb-candid) said : 		#2

well I don't know about kde4 since I haven't checked for while- although it
is good to know- does that mean they're out of beta. well yeah I'm more
concerned with the other software- I've tried packages.ubuntu.com- and
nothing comes up for freeciv except 2.0x. vlc only had 0.8.6c (although I'd
agree with that, since although the 0.9.0 release is 4-5 months late
according to the roadmap, it's still buggy as hell)
songbird isn't even there.

but I'm not particularly concerned with these specifics so much as I am with
beta, and even alpha packages being readily available for users more eager
to use bleeding-edge packages. The debian experimental repository is
probably in part for this purpose, so it would be nice for at least an
ubuntu equivalent to be available

On 10/24/07, Witold Krakowski <email address hidden> wrote:
>
> Your question #16018 on Ubuntu changed:
> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/16018
>
> Status: Open => Answered
>
> Witold Krakowski proposed the following answer:
> Well, the software you name is available for Ubuntu too.
> There are KDE4 packages regularly published on the kubuntu.org page.
> Others are available from their homepages, so if you really want them
> you can install them from .deb packages.
> Otherwise just install a debian and change apt repositories to
> experimental and
> issue a apt-get update && dist-upgrade.
>
> Regards,
>
> Witold
>
> --
> If this answers your question, please go to the following page to let us
> know that it is solved:
> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/16018/+confirm?answer_id=0
>
> If you still need help, you can reply to this email or go to the
> following page to enter your feedback:
> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/16018
>
> You received this question notification because you are a direct
> subscriber of the question.
>

--
Justin

Revision history for this message
Best Witold Krakowski (wkrakowski-gmail) said : 		#3

>> well I don't know about kde4 since I haven't checked for while- although it
> is good to know- does that mean they're out of beta.
No, they're not, but there are packages for every alpha and beta release available.
Please check www.kubuntu.org

Songbird is not in the repos, since it is a developer preview. A final user release will be ready in 2008.
Check www.songbirdnest.com
You can still download a .tar.gz and install from that package.

Same goes for vlc 0.9.0. It is not out yet, so you won't find packages. Either you stick with 0.8.6
or you get it from svn and compile it.

Freeciv has beta 2.1.0 available here: http://freeciv.wikia.com/wiki/Download#Beta
You can also get developer snapshots if you wish.
https://gna.org/svn/?group=freeciv

In general, bleeding edge beta or developer releases hardly get in an end user distro, but you can always
browse to the application web page and get them from their svn or cvs and compile.
Also, please note that usually alpha, beta and other developer releases are updated very frequently, so packaging of these releases is done only for big projects such as kde or firefox, etc.

>> The debian experimental repository is
>> probably in part for this purpose, so it would be nice for at least an
>> ubuntu equivalent to be available

Ubuntu is intended to be stable, so it doesn't include experimental branch, but you can add next release repos to
your sources.lst and install packages that will get in to the next release.

Revision history for this message
jbcandid (jb-candid) said : 		#4

well not the answer that I was hoping for...but I guess I'm glad in a way if ubuntu's stability is ensured by focusing on the security issues. If there was enough excess support to add an experimental repository for those who could utilize it, that would be nice, but that's an unnecessary luxury that only pertains to the impatient ones like myself. Much thanks to the ubuntu community- I only wish that I could do more to support you. Keep up the good work.

Revision history for this message
awdyson (awdyson) said : 		#5

I agree entirely with jb.
it seems like the buntus are a bit too concerned with protecting us from ourselves.
I realize this is a rather large request, but I'd love the ability to choose whether or not I want to go bleeding edge on a case to case basis.

IE:
which version of VLC would you like to install?
(*) 0.8.6c
( ) 0.9.0

I can only see this helping with the debugging process as well.

one note however:
definitely wouldn't make this installation default, it'd be better as an option in software sources

Revision history for this message
jbcandid (jb-candid) said : 		#6

at least add freeciv 2.1 to gutsy. since development is limited to freeciv, everyone knows no changes are going to be made between now and the release of hardy, and it's already in hardy.

I actually carelessly added hardy for this very reason, and because I forgot that is upgraded the system with incomplete packages (not even alpha1 yet!) I crashed my system. of course it was my fault, but since (unlike most of hardy) freeciv 2.1 won't change, why not add it to gutsy, along with other packages that are stable but, like freeciv 2.1, didn't become stable until after gutsy's release.

I understand ubuntu wants be stable, but since freeciv 2.1, and many other packages, are stable- adding them to the gutsy repositories should be considered.

and I'd second that ubuntu might be too concerned with us protecting ourselves. perhaps add it as a hidden repository- anyone who knows how to add it manually obviously has enough expertise that they don't need protecting..."child-lock" if you will.

Revision history for this message
jbcandid (jb-candid) said : 		#7

 Witold Krakowski quote: "Otherwise just install a debian and change apt repositories to experimental and
issue a apt-get update && dist-upgrade."

witold, perhaps you didn't know but the debian experimental packages won't work with ubuntu- mostly because ubuntu is built differently, despite being debian-based.

But believe me- I tried it, and it didn't work. I'm not a hacker or programmer- can't even do bash scripts (though I might consider learning as that would be helpful) but even if I did, it wouldn't be worth my time to reconfigure all the packages to work with ubuntu.

perhaps if I did learn how, I would convert the entire branch to ubuntu to contribute to the community- but by then it's likely someone else would have done it already. turns out you can't really create a songbird package yet- since at this point it's build to be mobile (i.e. all runs from one folder- instead of copying to /usr/share /usr/bin /usr/share/pixmaps /usr/lib, etc.)