Applying different PT cuts for each outgoing particle, but it seems madgraph only plots with the highest PT cut?

Asked by sbilmis

Hi,

I want to apply different PT cuts to same outgoing particles for the process;

p p > a a

For instance; I want to apply following cuts;

PT > 40 GeV for the first photon
PT > 20 GeV for the second photon

From the following link (https://cp3.irmp.ucl.ac.be/projects/madgraph/wiki/FAQ-General-1) I found out that, I need to modify “cuts.f".

To understand the code better, first, I tried leptons and jets processes since run_cards already include the options of setting separate PT cuts for each leptons and jets.

Hence, I generated following process just for trial purposes;

generate p p > u c~

and in the run_card, I used 100 and 50 GeV pt cuts for the leading and second jet respectively

# Control the pt's of the jets sorted by pt *
#*********************************************************************
100.0 = ptj1min ! minimum pt for the leading jet in pt
50.0 = ptj2min ! minimum pt for the second jet in pt
0.0 = ptj3min ! minimum pt for the third jet in pt
0.0 = ptj4min ! minimum pt for the fourth jet in pt
-1.0 = ptj1max ! maximum pt for the leading jet in pt
-1.0 = ptj2max ! maximum pt for the second jet in pt
-1.0 = ptj3max ! maximum pt for the third jet in pt
-1.0 = ptj4max ! maximum pt for the fourth jet in pt
0 = cutuse ! reject event if fails any (0) / all (1) jet pt cuts

At the end what I found is 100 GeV cut is applied for both leading and second jet?

In the following links you can find plots also,

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B17Lj8xqUHz-RjhrejlTelV2Sk0/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B17Lj8xqUHz-MjVEcGJDTE9kVGM/view?usp=sharing

Shouldn't we expect to get 100 GeV cut for leading jet and 50 GeV cut for the second jet? What is wrong here?

Moreover, wouldn't it be better to include these options (possibility of applying different cuts for each particle) also for photons in run_card like leptons and jets?

Thank you.

Selcuk

Question information

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MadGraph5_aMC@NLO Edit question
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Solved by:
Olivier Mattelaer
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Revision history for this message
Olivier Mattelaer (olivier-mattelaer) said :
#1

Hi,

For a 2 > 2 processes, the final states particles are back to back. Therefore the pt of the two particles are identical.

Cheers,

Olivier

On 03 Aug 2015, at 06:41, selcuk <email address hidden> wrote:

> New question #269934 on MadGraph5_aMC@NLO:
> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/269934
>
> Hi,
>
> I want to apply different PT cuts to same outgoing particles for the process;
>
> p p > a a
>
> For instance; I want to apply following cuts;
>
> PT > 40 GeV for the first photon
> PT > 20 GeV for the second photon
>
>> From the following link (https://cp3.irmp.ucl.ac.be/projects/madgraph/wiki/FAQ-General-1) I found out that, I need to modify “cuts.f".
>
> To understand the code better, first, I tried leptons and jets processes since run_cards already include the options of setting separate PT cuts for each leptons and jets.
>
> Hence, I generated following process just for trial purposes;
>
> generate p p > u c~
>
> and in the run_card, I used 100 and 50 GeV pt cuts for the leading and second jet respectively
>
> # Control the pt's of the jets sorted by pt *
> #*********************************************************************
> 100.0 = ptj1min ! minimum pt for the leading jet in pt
> 50.0 = ptj2min ! minimum pt for the second jet in pt
> 0.0 = ptj3min ! minimum pt for the third jet in pt
> 0.0 = ptj4min ! minimum pt for the fourth jet in pt
> -1.0 = ptj1max ! maximum pt for the leading jet in pt
> -1.0 = ptj2max ! maximum pt for the second jet in pt
> -1.0 = ptj3max ! maximum pt for the third jet in pt
> -1.0 = ptj4max ! maximum pt for the fourth jet in pt
> 0 = cutuse ! reject event if fails any (0) / all (1) jet pt cuts
>
> At the end what I found is 100 GeV cut is applied for both leading and second jet?
>
> In the following links you can find plots also,
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B17Lj8xqUHz-RjhrejlTelV2Sk0/view?usp=sharing
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B17Lj8xqUHz-MjVEcGJDTE9kVGM/view?usp=sharing
>
> Shouldn't we expect to get 100 GeV cut for leading jet and 50 GeV cut for the second jet? What is wrong here?
>
> Moreover, wouldn't it be better to include these options (possibility of applying different cuts for each particle) also for photons in run_card like leptons and jets?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Selcuk
>
>
> --
> You received this question notification because you are an answer
> contact for MadGraph5_aMC@NLO.

Revision history for this message
sbilmis (selcukbilmis) said :
#2

I understand that PT distributions are same. However, since in the plots the distributions are shown as jet1 and jet2 I thought we could still discriminate these two particles and apply different cuts to each of them even though they have same PT.

So, if this method is not possible, is there a way to apply different PT cuts for 2->2 process?
I need p p > a a
PT (first photon) > 40 GeV
PT (second photon) > 25 GeV

Thank you.

Revision history for this message
Best Olivier Mattelaer (olivier-mattelaer) said :
#3

Hi,

> So, if this method is not possible, is there a way to apply different PT cuts for 2->2 process?
> I need p p > a a
> PT (first photon) > 40 GeV
> PT (second photon) > 25 GeV

Whatever you do you have PT(first) = PT(second).
so therefore when you ask
PT(first) > 40
you also ask
PT(second) > 40

This means that your second cut
P((second) >25
is pointless since you already ask him to be larger than 40.

This is NOT a technical limitation of the code, this is basic kinematic of a 2>2 process.
They are NO WAY that you can have different cut at event generation.

Actually since those two particle are completely identical, the notion of first and second is also meaningless.
(the typical ordering based on pt do not hold for this case). Therefore having one plot for the “first” and another one for the “second”
is actually a stupid things that our plotting routine do not realise.

Cheers,

Olivier

On 05 Aug 2015, at 07:07, selcuk <email address hidden> wrote:

> Question #269934 on MadGraph5_aMC@NLO changed:
> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/269934
>
> Status: Answered => Open
>
> selcuk is still having a problem:
> I understand that PT distributions are same. However, since in the plots
> the distributions are shown as jet1 and jet2 I thought we could still
> discriminate these two particles and apply different cuts to each of
> them even though they have same PT.
>
> So, if this method is not possible, is there a way to apply different PT cuts for 2->2 process?
> I need p p > a a
> PT (first photon) > 40 GeV
> PT (second photon) > 25 GeV
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> You received this question notification because you are an answer
> contact for MadGraph5_aMC@NLO.

Revision history for this message
sbilmis (selcukbilmis) said :
#4

Thanks Olivier Mattelaer, that solved my question.