Decided not to install - an explanation

Asked by hungryhungryhorus

Please note, I am not an expert linux user but I've gotten as far as writing and running my own python scripts.

I was very excited when I first found out about this. I've been planning on setting up a media PC but I've been waiting for a solid program to run on it.

That said, shortly after downloading this thing I've decided not to bother with it. In the interest of helping develop a usable program I've decided to post this.

1. I've downloaded the tar. I've extracted it. I've entered the extracted folder. Now what the fuck do I do? Is there a file with big letters INSTALL? no there isn't. I open the README, are there instructions? no. I open the license file - GPL, this is useless to me. I open the TODO (maybe its things I'm supposed to do?). It looks like a laundry list for the author, why do I have this?

I open the src\ (I assume this is short for source code?). Oooh! a Makefile! maybe this will make the program work! I open the file - it's code I don't understand.

There's nothing here for me. There's no instructions in this thing and nothing else that would make me think "click on this to install Entertainer).

2. Maybe there's instructions on the website?
Introduction is a description.

Ah! the Frequently Asked Question section! Of course it will be in there.
FAQ question number 1: Why did you create Entertainer? Multiple Media Centers exists already?
Really? "Why did you make this?" is your number one question? Are you absolutely sure it isn't "How do I install this?"(as your FAQ forum would allege). And that second part isn't even a question!

AHA! I can ask questions at Launchpad! Ignoring the fact that I have no idea what launchpad is (Why not "Click here to ask a question"?), I click ahead.

...
...

Do tell me, why must I sacrifice an e-mail address on your FAQ altar before I am even allowed to gaze upon your almighty forum? It isn't to keep bots out, there's no captcha. It isn't to spam me, or so you say... why?

So I sacrifice a token mailinator.com address (I highly recommend them) to gain access to your site where I begin typing up my question: "I accidentally the whole install, is this bad? y/n" (okay, I actually asked how do I install this) and low and behold a dozen similar topics are offered for me to peruse. And when I say similar, I mean exactly the same. It's here that I find instructions for how to install Entertainer, kind of, I have to go to someones blog. But THERE is where I find instructions to install Entertainer.

Allow me at this point, to say, I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to software. I think it should be clean, simple and intuitive, and while I will understand that that isn't always possible, I do not forgive your 4 step installation procedure. Expecting me to look up the dependencies of this application, download them and install them brought me to the breaking point, but having me execute 3 python scripts independently of each other broke my will.

./entertainer-content-management.py
./entertainer-backend.py
./entertainer-frontend.py

Why, for the love of god and all that is holy, are these not handled by a single script? all it would take is to copy those commands into one file and name it "RUN ME TO INSTALL ENTERTAINER!!!!1" Hell, at this point, I don't even give a shit if it isn't in the root directory of the tar! Here look:

sudo apt-get install python-gobject python-gtk2 python-gst0.10 python-clutter \
python-pysqlite2 python-cddb python-glade2 python-cairo python-feedparser \
python-pyinotify python-eyed3 python-pyvorbis python-imaging python-imdbpy \
python-notify
./src/entertainer-content-management.py
./src/entertainer-backend.py
./src/entertainer-frontend.py

There's your f*cking install file. Paste it into a file put it in the root directory and have people run it. Was that so hard?

But after observing all of this I came to the conclusion that your software wasn't worth installing after all. You may be the best programmers on the face of the earth, but when it comes to the experience I had to go through to get this thing up, it's clear you haven't spent time thinking about the user experience; and if people can't use your software it doesn't exist.

Well that's my rant. I hope that if you didn't find it mildly entertaining, you at least found it mildly insightful. I really hope that your software improves and makes it big. I'm still looking for a home theater application for a media PC and I've got my fingers crossed for you guys. Good luck!

Question information

Language:
English Edit question
Status:
Answered
For:
Entertainer Media Center Edit question
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Revision history for this message
Paul Hummer (rockstar) said :
#1

I understand your frustration. Entertainer's development team is small, we are a young project, and we have had many struggles because we all do this for free. This is a labor of love for us. For you to "sacrifice an email address" merely to tear apart our project is not "mildly entertaining" or "mildy insightful." We've provided MANY methods of finding help, including a mailing list, an IRC channel, a wiki at wiki.entertainer-project.com (which has the same installation info), and Launchpad.

We are preparing only our third release ever, and we've done a lot of work to make the installation easier. I'm sorry it's not up to your snuff. Please use your choice as your vote.

Revision history for this message
Peter (maubp) said :
#2

It turned into a rant, but I agree with the OP - looking at the contents of the 0.4.2 tar ball, the documentation sucks.

As mentioned, a basic INSTALL file is needed. This still doesn't exist on the trunk!
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~entertainer-releases/entertainer/trunk/files

Even a tiny file which just says read this webpage would be a massive improvement:
http://wiki.entertainer-project.com/wiki/StartUpGuide

I don't see the three python scripts, entertainer-content-management.py, entertainer-backend.py and entertainer-frontend.py that the OP mentioned - just a standard python setup.py file which is good progress. I can guess how to use this from other python libraries I have installed (and this is explained on the wiki), but this really needs to go in the missing INSTALL file.

Adding a basic INSTALL file should just take five minutes for a developer, but will make a big difference to anyone grabbing the code and wanting to try it out.

Please do this,

Peter

P.S.

The file docs/DEPENDENCIES appears to list Debian/Ubuntu package names, so it would make sense to replace the list with a suggestion that on Debian or Ubuntu you can install the dependencies with:

sudo apt-get install python-cairo python-cddb python-clutter python-eyed3 python-feedparser python-glade2 python-gobject python-gst0.10 python-gtk2 python-imaging python-imdbpy python-pysqlite2 python-pyvorbis python-storm python-twisted

(and in the long term, a similar command for other major Linux distributions).

Revision history for this message
Matt Layman (mblayman) said :
#3

Peter,

Thanks for posting. Like Paul mentioned to the OP, I too understand your frustration. I would encourage you to check out the "future" branch for some of the things you're looking for (like a README).

Entertainer is still essentially a tech preview aimed at developers. The fact of the matter is that we are working on *huge* architectural changes in the design of Entertainer. We've been stalling big time on the next release because we're switching to a true client/server model, and we've redesigned many of the user interface widgets. In the past Entertainer was only usable through use of a keyboard and we've changed things so that all widgets are sensitive to touch. Furthermore, we've greatly increased the smoothness and flow of most of the UI. In short, I think we've been doing some great stuff, but it just hasn't landed onto the trunk yet for most people to use.

There are currently two "active" developers. And I use that term loosely because the two of us that are active are incredibly busy with work life, writing a book, attending graduate school, etc. I agree that documentation is often the first thing overlooked by developers, and that is certainly true in Entertainer's case.

I know we've dropped the ball on the PPA, and we just have to deal with the fall out of that since we're more focused on the big changes.

I hope that we have a great 0.5 release in the Karmic Koala lifecycle that should make up for our past mistakes. If you're interested in helping out, please contact us on IRC on Freenode in #entertainer. Paul (rockstar) or I (laymansterms) would be happy to answer your questions.

Thanks,
Matt

Revision history for this message
Peter (maubp) said :
#4

See also:
https://answers.launchpad.net/entertainer/+question/85391

Current work is on the future branch (not the trunk), and there
is now a minimal README file. Progress :)

Hopefully the 0.5 release will sort out some of these
documentation issues (as well as adding interesting
new features).

Thanks,
Peter

Revision history for this message
Garikai Dzoma (gdzoma) said :
#5
Revision history for this message
Matt Layman (mblayman) said :
#6

Garikai,

The wiki is currently down and it's a known issue (Bug #500164). I'm sure the assignee to that bug will work on it when he gets a chance.

Thanks for your patience,
Matt

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