install ubuntu 10.10 X64 without killing my grub version 0.97

Asked by Richard

With ubuntu 10.04 there was an advantged button where I could select - no grub install - or simular.
With 10.10 I am missing this function and as I have an automatic generator of my GRUB 0.97 menu I do not see any reason to move to Grub 2..
Question is how to install ubuntu 10.10 without changing my grub version.

One way would be to install this new version on one of my old small disks, do not care about grub and after installation remove the GRUB package and do a backup with TAR to my nas box. Then change disk and do a TAR restore.
But I assume there must be a more intelligent solution for this?

To be more correct, with ubuntu X32 the TAR backup/restore funtion works perfect, but with the X64 there is a problem with gdm files, that is the reason I am looking to install the X64 version direct to my working disk and do not want to loose my grub menu etc.

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peter b (b1pete) said :

yes, 1010 still has on its repos grub legacy (v 097); the url below may help you to downgrade to grub legacy.

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Richard (r-oostveen) said :

Thanks Peter, that was already what I had done. After a 10.10 installation Grub is updated from 0.97 to Grub2 without giving me a possibility to prevent this. So my basic question was how to install 10.10 without installing Grub2.
For me it seems that that is not possible anymore as with previous version 10.04.

You are right that there will be a time I have to move to Grub2, but Grub2 is not so easy to configure.
With Grub 0.97 I have a small partition (sda6) and by editing the files there I can easy control which partition I boot from and with which kernel I boot. I create the munu.lst from a script. By Grub2 I have not seen this easy possibility to manupulate the bootmenu.
But once there will be a good HOWTO or other manual I will take again a look to Grub2.

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delance (olivier-delance) said :

There are good HOWTOs and manuals. I use them to answer question. If you ask next week, I will be able to provide you.
The problem is you will get less and less support on Grub Legacy, as most people will migrate to Grub2. Some people like me started with 9.10 and Grub2.
If you search a menu generator, startup-manager will manage also Grub2 now.
If you explain me what functionnality you want, I could explain you how to get this with Grub2.

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Richard (r-oostveen) said :

Hallo Delance,

next week is ok, I am not in a hurry.

With old grub I do following:
I have sda1 to sda10 (sda4=ext part, sda5=swap, sda6=1GB and contains my grub/bootmenu.

I use as backup TAR
With TAR I do a restore to any partition I want, part of the restore is that it create a sdaX.txt file.
(additional it modifies the fstab but that is not part of grub).
The sdaX.txt contrains the text and parameters for Grub to start this partition.
After the restore I just copy sda1.txt+sda2+..+sda10 to menu.txt and my bootmenu is finished.
This simple functionallity I would like to continue with Grub2.

Have a good new year.

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peter b (b1pete) said :

....'You are right that there will be a time I have to move to Grub2, but Grub2 is not so easy to configure.
With Grub 0.97 I have a small partition (sda6) and by editing the files there I can easy control which partition I boot from and with which kernel I boot.....

yes Richard; since you still have to edit I presume that you're quite familiar with such procedures given your wishes to be in full control of the booting process; so, it does not matter whether you edit files belonging to grub legacy or grub2.

along these lines, question pls - did you investigate a little the inner workings of grub2 ? there is a v good thread re grub2 that for sure will help in getting familiar with this task

in a nutshell, I'm referring specifically to /etc/grub.d/40_custom file; this file can be edited to virtually accommodate any desired configuration. maybe now is the time ...'You are right that there will be a time I have to move to Grub2'....

just a little deeper into grub2 setup - grub2 'sits' on MBR following a release install that contained grub2 ; just edit the 40_custom file as you desire then issue an update-grub command to update /boot/grub/grub.cfg file then boot ; (the edited 40_custom file will be read when update-grub run).

axample - here below is just an entry, among many others , in my 40_custom file that boots an ....iso file under grub2 (it appears as a boot item in grub2 menu)

echo "Adding systemrescuecd-x86-1.5.8.iso on /dev/sda10" >&2
cat << EOF
menuentry "SystemRescue-ISO on /dev/sda10" {
loopback loop (hd0,10)/systemrescuecd-x86-1.5.8.iso
linux (loop)/isolinux/rescue64 setkmap=us isoloop=/systemrescuecd-x86-1.5.8.iso
initrd (loop)/isolinux/initram.igz

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peter b (b1pete) said :

Richard, another v good thread re grub2

that shows in greater detail with examples how to set up dedicated grub partition as well as creating a customised grub.cfg file.

I have tested both above url's and can say with no hesitation that the solutions presented work flawless. just a bit of more info - drs305 the senior member on the first url is in constant touch with grub2 devs. the thread is open and he'll answer any query you may have.

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Richard (r-oostveen) said :

Thanks for all - I am still strugling with this grub2.

Basics first, have a disk with some OS partitions, one swap partition and one windows partition (some time later).
Additional I have reserved sda6 as my boot partition.
My boot partition should be independed from ANY OS partition, assume all linux and all grub2 OS.
What do I map where.
I started wtih a new disk and a new installation of ubuntu 10.10 in sda1 via a mini iso image 12,2MB - it asked where to install grub2 and I wanted sda6 - NOT possible so now it is in sda1 and depending on the OS in sda1.
So that was wrong - how to do it beter - if needed I can do a new installation.

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peter b (b1pete) said :

ok Richard, just to inch your way in about a better understanding re grub2 ....'I am still strugling with this grub2.'... let's start with a v basic setup ....'if needed I can do a new installation.'....

- first, as you know win is built such that it does not (in normal installs) accept anything else but the first pri partition of the first HD and installs its boot loader to MBR. so, when multiple os's will be involved/installed, install win first, ALWAYS, according to its requirements - give it the first pri part of first HD and let it install its bootloader to MBR (sure there are ways that these requirements can be circumvented but that can be done using more advanced methods when the user is already fully conversant with win and the other bootloaders peculiarities). v imp. - win must function without any flaw BEFORE any attempt is made to install a new os (multi boot situation)
- second, use the other os partitioner utility for partitioning the HD to accommodate the new os install. in linux/ubuntu case any combination of pri extended logical combination will do. as an example - 1 HD - let sda1 have win on it, create sda2 large enough to contain user's data that can be shared on all os's, if desired create a new pri data part sda3 (mind you this sda3 can be used also as / part for ubuntu) otherwise just create the extended partition that usually occupies the remainder of HD. on this extended a basic ubuntu install requires two partitions the / (this / part required ONLY if NO other / configured) and swap. create them in this order as logical partitions.
- third, regardless what type of install media used for install (live CD or alternate) ALWAYS install ubuntu bootloader to MBR (in live CD installs watch for this v imp step close to beginning of install process while in alternate media installs this v imp step is close to the end of install process - you'll be prompted/notified).
- the ubuntu bootloader - grub2 for the later releases will overwrite win bootloader and present you with the boot menu where all detected os installed will be displayed. if problems encountered for one reason or another there are procedures available to restore either win MBR or grub2. rest assured that no data or the os's file systems will be messed up.

give it a try Richard.

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