Lubuntu 18.04.5 - question about support after April 2021 and Debian Stretch/Buster packages

Asked by Piotr on 2021-04-06

Dear Community,

I have question to Lubuntu 18.04 system. I know that official support from Lubuntu Team will be end after April 2021 but I want to know what is end of support for debian packages for LXDE environment. I can't see any information about end of support for LXDE from Debian Buster. Maybe someone know what is work for Debian and if all packages from Debian will be get updates? Or maybe community leaves packages from Debian for Ubuntu/Lubuntu 18.04.5 and only main packages will be update? Universe packages from Debian will be not supported after April 2021?

If I will typing ubuntu-support-status command on terminal then I can see that all packages from universe will be updated to April 2021 but I don't know if this same packages on Debian will be also end of support? I know that this is Ubuntu answers but I want to know how it is work. If it is true why updates from Debian will be not included if maintainers will be work on them?

I hope that you will answer.

Yours faithfully,
Piotr

Question information

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Last query:
2021-04-15
Last reply:
2021-04-12
Manfred Hampl (m-hampl) said : #1

This is a support area for Ubuntu.
If you have questions about Debian's support policy, then you have to ask elsewhere, e.g. in a Debian forum.

Piotr (peterq94) said : #2

I know that this is support for Ubuntu but I have question to Lubuntu and debian packages (Lubuntu have installed Debian packages by default) so this is Ubuntu area because Lubuntu is from Ubuntu family. I have simple question after April 2021 Lubuntu will get updates for packages from universe repository or this will get only updates from main ? I must know if universe packages will be updated. A lot of this packages comes from Debian that is why I asked about Debian support. If Debian will be make updates so in my opinion will be logic if Ubuntu will be also "share" with these updates. Someone can explain me if this works like I mentioned above?

Daniel Letzeisen (dtl131) said : #3

Technically, you can continue to run Lubuntu 18.04, and you will still get the updates that apply to 18.04 in general, because Lubuntu uses the same repos as the regular version of Ubuntu.
But you will not get updates to LXDE or Lubuntu-specific packages, and it could be potentially insecure. Obviously, this is not recommended and it is not officially supported, so do not expect support requests or bug reports to be answered.

Piotr (peterq94) said : #4

@Daniel Letzeisen, I know that I will not get updates for Lubuntu-specific packages but I can deinstall it. I did research and a lot of packages for Lubuntu are from Debian so I can remove packages only from Lubuntu Team and leave only packages from Debian. I think that Debian packages can get updates because Debian people probably still support it but I don't know if this updates will be on Ubuntu Servers. Maybe I can't download it without editing /etc/apt/sources.list.

Someone can tell me if I will get updates after April 2021 for example for lxterminal? This is package from Debian. How I can check this?

Manfred Hampl (m-hampl) said : #5

There seems to be some misunderstanding on your side about Ubuntu and Debian packages.

Almost all packages in Ubuntu are derived from Debian packages, but many of them have been modified for Ubuntu. YOu should not install a package from Debian in Ubuntu, but always should install from the Ubuntu sources (which may provide the same version as the one in Debian in some cases).

If we take lxterminal as example:
see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lxterminal

You see that there are two versions for Ubuntu xenial:
version 0.2.0-1 in "release"
version 0.2.0-1ubuntu0.1 in "security" and "updates".

Version 0.2.0-1 is the version from Debian which was the current one when Ubuntu xenial was published.
Later there was an update to fix CVE-2016-10369, and this update was done only in Ubuntu.
Debian at that time had already a different version, but copying new version from Debian to Ubuntu for already-published Ubuntu releases is done only in exceptional cases.

What does this mean for your Lubuntu 18.04 system?
Even if Debian already has a new version for lxde packages, that package will not be brought into Ubuntu 18.04, not before April 2021 and not afterwards.

Piotr (peterq94) said : #6

Thank you @Manfred Hampl for explain but Mr Walter Lapchynski said: "Back to the topic, LXDE developers are involved in packaging the Debian packages, which are synced in Ubuntu. So LXDE will likely continue to be updated in the Ubuntu archives. It's just that the Lubuntu Team is not going to be involved in that. If you want to keep using 18.04, you can keep using it until Ubuntu stops supporting the archive for it, but that will mean that when you need support, you would reach out to Ubuntu resources, not Lubuntu ones. The unfortunate aspect there is that they will be far less familiar with LXDE, so it will be harder to find help."

My english is not the best but I understand that Debian packages are in connection with Ubuntu servers so if some updates will be included in Debian than this will be comes to Ubuntu archive so everyone who have this packages installed on Ubuntu/Lubuntu then they will get updates. You explain me that I will not get updates from Debian so I don't know who have right now? Lubuntu 18.04 end support because people from Lubuntu will be not work on this project but people from Debian maybe will be do so I must know if I will get updates in mine Lubuntu 18.04 after April 2021 if I will remove Lubuntu packages and I leave only Debian packages.

Piotr (peterq94) said : #7

Mr Walter Lapchynski said: "..if you want to keep using 18.04, you can keep using it until Ubuntu stops supporting the archive for it..." - so the key for my question is: How I can check if this archive is supported by Ubuntu? Universe archives will be also supported after April 2021?

Manfred Hampl (m-hampl) said : #8

"If you want to keep using 18.04, you can keep using it until Ubuntu stops supporting the archive for it"

Ubuntu 18.04 will be supported until April 2023 and bug fixes will be published until then. The Ubuntu repositories will stay available at least until that date.
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2018-April/000231.html

If there are further developments in Debian LXDE packages, then they will be brought only to Lubuntu 20.04, 20.10 and later, but most probably not to Lubuntu 18.04

See also https://lubuntu.me/bionic-5-released/ :
"Support lifespan
Lubuntu 18.04.5 LTS, will be supported until April 2021. We are limiting changes to critical fixes and underlying system changes shipped with all other Ubuntu flavors for the 18.04.5 LTS release."
A similar message was contained already in https://lubuntu.me/bionic-released/

Of course you can try installing packages from Debian on your Lubuntu system, but this is not supported at all. Don't complain if you run into a problem. If you do such action, then you do that within your own responsibility.

Daniel Letzeisen (dtl131) said : #9

"but I understand that Debian packages are in connection with Ubuntu servers so if some updates will be included in Debian than this will be comes to Ubuntu archive"

^False. Ubuntu only automatically syncs from Debian (sid/unstable branch) before a release.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianImportFreeze

After release, Ubuntu devs must manually apply changes through SRU process.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
They could apply changes that also appear in the Debian packaging (i.e. copy a patch), but it won't be an automatic sync from Debian.

So the answer I gave in comment #3 still applies. I'm skeptical of Mr. Lapchynski's claim that LXDE packages will continue to receive updates without intervention of Lubuntu devs, but if you do receive updates, consider it a bonus. It is not guaranteed that you will receive updates to LXDE packages.

Piotr (peterq94) said : #10

Okay so if I want still use LXDE with latest updatest I must migrate to Fedora Spin or Debian Buster? I can see that Ubuntu 20.04 have this same packages like Ubuntu 18.04.5 so this not make sense to install Ubuntu 20.04 with LXDE packages. What do you think?

Piotr (peterq94) said : #11

I can see now that Bionic have not packages from Debian Buster. These packages are from Stretch so I think that some updates can be but to 2022 year when Stretch will be EOL status but like you said if maintainers will not share with updates via Ubuntu archives I will not get any updates. It is very sad :(

Manfred Hampl (m-hampl) said : #12

" I will not get any updates. It is very sad :("

see https://lubuntu.me/bionic-released/ first paragraph:
"Lubuntu 18.04 LTS is the 14th release of Lubuntu, with support until April of 2021."

The date when support ends was communicated from the very beginning.

Your complaint is somewhat similar to
"I am using Windows 95 but Microsoft stopped providing support"

Daniel Letzeisen (dtl131) said : #13

Debian Buster is not what you want if you want latest LXDE packages all of the time. Debian sid/unstable would be a better bet for that. But be warned that Debian sid/unstable is a rolling release distro and not aimed at beginners.

Quite honestly, I don't know what's going on with LXDE. They were going to move to LXQt, but it seems like they are still maintaining the old GTK2-based LXDE too.

Piotr (peterq94) said : #14

This is very strange for me too that LXDE is still maintaining alongiside LXQt. I wroted to PCManFM but he didn't answer for my questions. I didn't got message from him yet. I don't know who now maintains LXDE project and who are working now about it. I readed that orginal team from LXDE moved to LXQt so it is question who now fix bugs in LXDE ? Maybe someone know? I found also that Fedora 34 will be have LXDE with Wayland and this means that LXDE work with GTK3?

Piotr (peterq94) said : #15

Why Debian Buster is not for me? I want to have stable system with security updates for all packages. Debian doesn't have support for LXDE packages? Debian unstable is not checked by security team so this is not for me.

Manfred Hampl (m-hampl) said : #16

You have to decide whether you want to run Ubuntu or Debian.
Mixing packages from both is not supported at all.

Piotr (peterq94) said : #17

Okay, thank for your advice. I created this topic because I thinked that after April 2021 Lubuntu 18.04 will have end of support from Lubuntu Team but someone from Ubuntu will be get to maintain packages for LXDE environment and I will get updates (security and bug fix). But like you said after April 2021 Lubuntu will be work (due to fact that Ubuntu 18.04 will be supported to 2023 year) but this probably will be not get any updates for LXDE packages and Lubuntu dedicated packages. Lubuntu dedicated packages I can remove but if LXDE packages like lxterminal will be not get any security updates this means that Lubuntu 18.04 after April 2021 will be not secure (like Windows 7 for example) and I must get away from this to Lubuntu 20.04 LTS or other distribution with LXDE or LXQt.

Piotr (peterq94) said : #19

Now I was on lubuntu.me website and I found graphic which suggested that to April 2021 year we have support from Lubuntu Team and after this date we have support from "Ubuntu Community" to 2022 year. What is mean and why to 2022 year and not to 2023 year like for Ubuntu 18.04? I don't know how I should understand "Ubuntu Community" Support? This means help, here on launchpad but without updates or this means that someone from Ubuntu Community will be maintain packages for Lubuntu 18.04.5? Maybe someone know what will be this in real?

This graphics is here on the bottom of the website: https://lubuntu.me/downloads/

Daniel Letzeisen (dtl131) said : #20

"I don't know how I should understand "Ubuntu Community" Support?"

Ask for clarification at https://discourse.lubuntu.me/c/support/6

I've personally given you as much of an answer as I can in comments #3 and #9. So you know the situation. Now it is your choice whether you want to continue to run 18.04. Nobody else but you can answer that.

Piotr (peterq94) said : #21

Okay thank you Daniel Letzeisen and Manfred Hampl for help. I don't know what post I should tagged like by "This Solved My Problem" button. A lot of post was helpful. Is it option to use this solved my problem to two post? Both guys help me a lot and conversation was very interesting. Thank again for your support.

Daniel Letzeisen (dtl131) said : #22

Give it to Manfred. I personally don't care how may "Karma Points" I have.

Manfred Hampl (m-hampl) said : #23

Neither do I care about karma points

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