Ubuntu on ext USB HDD

first off,

- xp is installed on ...'I have a 60G HDD in my laptop with XP installed'... so your 60gb drive IS bootable AND xp loads off it; you say ...'I would like to have XP on the internal HDD' so --> nothing to be done on it.

secondly,

- the external HD - something has to be done on it ...'and have 1/2 of the external HDD available to it and have Ubuntu 8.10-64 on the other 1/2 of the external'... because of that something ALWAYS BEFORE DOING THAT pls copy FROM this HD to either CD or some other media ALL data that you care about (repartitioning/shrinking HD/partitions is a risky affair so better be safe than sorry.

a word of CAUTION - if you're SURE that ONLY DATA NOT SYSTEM FILES are on the 250gb HD then AFTER having ALL data backedup/copied to a diff media as described above THEN and ONLY THEN you can repartition your 250gb HD the way you desire.

question BEFORE PROCEEDING with repartitioning -did you check whether there is 1/2 external HD available for ubuntu ? that will tell you how much space can be made available to the future ubuntu .

AFTER ALL ABOVE DONE, in xp just repartition your 250gb - I hope you know how to do it. whatever space you made available to ubuntu pls leave it as unallocated space in xp - ubuntu will pick it up and show it as FREE SPACE at install (that is the space that you'll use to install ubuntu)

mind you, repartitioning/shrinking HD/partitions can be done with the ubuntu live CD - open a terminal and issue

sudo gparted

command; it will show you the two HDD - the internal one will likely be called sda while the external probably sdb -- CAUTION pls check v carefully if that's the case BEFORE DOING ANYTHING FURTHER. PLS DO NOT TOUCH THE 60GB HD!!

if you're not familiar with gparted then pls DO NOT PROCEED further, better stick with xp. or if you want to use gparted get first v familiar with it then proceed - your choice.

peter b

Assuming all of the following is correct and performed, I read where I will not be able to boot into EITHER OS unless the external drive is connected to the notebook. Is this true? If so ... I may have to find a work-around for that. There will be times when I need to boot XP without the external (external needs wall plug; it's a notebook computer). I think THIS needs to be resolved FIRST.

I want to thank you immensely for your time in answering my question. I used WUBI to install 8.10-64 so Ubuntu and XP are "mixed together' on the internal drive. I expect to uninstall Ubuntu first, leaving XP installed on internal. The XP programs that are in Program Files on the EXTERNAL drive could be uninstalled from XP and reinstalled after the partitioning is done and data files can go to a CD, leaving the external entirely empty.

Your "first,off' is correct. Your CAUTION is well taken.

"did you check whether there is 1/2 external HD available for ubuntu ?" The utilization of XP to the external is far less than 1/2 of the drive. I think 1/2 and 1/2 will be just fine. It would give me 60G on internal and 125G on external for XP and 125G on external for Ubuntu. Plenty for both on external.

"AFTER ALL ABOVE DONE, in xp just repartition your 250gb".

Right, .. in XP, delete existing partition on external, create new partition of 1/2 of the drive, .. and another partition for the other 1/2.

Now is where I want to go hang myself: Uhmmm, not sure about primary, extended, active and all that. "Familiar with gparted??" Not really. I have not partitioned a drive since Bill Gates was a kid. As I recall, it is not as complicated as it sounds, .. just been about 20+ years since I needed to partition. Surely someone (you?) can explain it. Let us start with 'delete partition on external drive". If you are not 'big' on talking about XP partitioner, can't I boot from UBUNTU CD (see below), and use gparted?

I am confused about 'live' cds and ISO created cd's. I downloaded Ubuntu 8.10-64 and burned it to a CD (iso). Thought I would need it, then discovered Wubi which downloaded and installed UBUNTU on C: drive. Never called for the CD I burned. Since I am UNinstalling the Wubi install, I have 8.10-64 on a CD. Is that a 'live CD'?

Whether it is or not, wouldn't I boot it, NOT install it, to go terminal and run gparted? With gparted, create 2 partitions on external, front 1/2 for XP and back 1/2 for Ubuntu. No, I am not that familiar with gparted either, particularly with regard to active, primary, etc etc. Can't be much different from XP's partition utility. Familiar with gparted?? Gparted, XP partition utility, Partition Magic, .. they are all basically the same ... no? I have not partitioned a drive since Bill Gates was a kid. I DO think I can get through any of them once I 'remember' about active, primary, etc etc. It has just been too long. Besides, where would I go to relearn it?

I take all your warnings seriously and understand the risks in partitioning drives. "if you're not familiar with gparted then pls DO NOT PROCEED further, better stick with xp." Not exactly an option, . I need to get rid of the WUBI install of UBUNTU and reinstall UBUNTU on its own partition on the external drive. I need to do this and but for a little bit of help, I can do it.

If you can clarify 'live cd' for me, and tell me what kind of partitions to make on external, I think I can do it. If you can, let me know and I will close this thread. THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU HAVE ALREADY DONE.

Thought I would show I am trying .. found this:

How to Partition a Hard Drive http://www.ehow.com/how_6027_partition-hard-drive.html
Step1 Start the computer in Command Prompt Mode.
(XP command mode off drive C)
Step2 Type "FDISK." The partition window will appear with menu options.
Step3 Enter 5 if you're partitioning a second drive, and select the drive
(OK, that's what I'm doin)
Step4 Enter 1 (Create DOS Partition or Logical DOS Drive).
(OK)
Step5 Enter 2 (Create Extended DOS) to create a partition.
(OK)
Step6 Enter N when the program asks if you want to use the maximum available size.
(OK)
Step7 Designate the amount of disk space to allocate to the second partition (the partition will be assigned the next drive letter). (Uhhhm, .. 1/2 of the size of the external drive which will be 1/2 of the external drive afforded to XP).
Step8 Type a name for the new partition and press Enter. The partition menu will appear.
(Uhhhhh, XP?)
Step9 Repeat steps 5 through 8 to create additional partitions.
(this will be the second 1/2 of the external drive for Ubuntu).
Step10 Press Esc to exit the partition command.
Step11 Format the newly created partitions

Nothing about making anything 'active' or bootable, .. I guess that doesn't apply?
I will end up with Drive C: (XP), Drive D: (first partition on external drive) (XP) and a Drive E: 125G to install Ubuntu. Nothing to it. NO?? Am I overlooking anything?

I THINK I have a solution to having the USB drive connected. Computer CMOS allows booting from USB device. Do NOT DUAL BOOT. Instead, when I want to boot XP, have 1st HDD as boot device. When I want to boot Ubuntu, have USB HD as boot device. Hmm, that won't work, .. UBUNTU is on 2nd external drive partition. Close ... but not quite(?).

ok, first things first - just uninstall WUBI (follow procedure on wubi site or its documentation - not quite sure how to do it, the command(s); v important !! PLS follow WUBI DEVELOPER PROCEDURE, MANDATORY ACTION/STEP - you don't want to ruin your xp installation.

you say ....'The XP programs that are in Program Files on the EXTERNAL drive could be uninstalled from XP and reinstalled after the partitioning is done and data files can go to a CD, leaving the external entirely empty.'... not quite so --> Program Files folder is A XP SYSTEM FOLDER so if it goes xp WILL NOT BOOT ANY LONGER. sure there are SOME subfolders (applications) in Program Files that were installed AFTER xp install - these can no doubt be reinstalled provided that they were saved before BUT Program Files main folder MUST BE THERE, it was created by xp install and usually is in the partition where xp lives IT IS A XP SYSTEM FOLDER!!

just a hint - pls make a distinction between DATA file/folders and SYSTEM files/folders.

that's good that you know what space can be allowed to future ubuntu. I would propose/suggest in your case, to take a step-by- step approach; as said, first let's clean xp in other words uninstall WUBI and see how things go, whether you can still boot into xp or not. I'd strongly recommend in view of the new development - wubi presence- to copy BEFORE attempting wubi uninstall ALL DATA to a diff media as mentioned in the previous post.

secondly, after this done and xp is left just with its files/folders and is bootable then just tell us what folders and files are there on the external HD - it may v well be just DATA - if you can make that distinction then great, copy everything you care as discussed in the previous post.

...'I am confused about 'live' cds and ISO created cd's. I downloaded Ubuntu 8.10-64 and burned it to a CD (iso). Thought I would need it, then discovered Wubi which downloaded and installed UBUNTU on C: drive. Never called for the CD I burned. Since I am UNinstalling the Wubi install, I have 8.10-64 on a CD. Is that a 'live CD'?'... I do not know - there are two kinds of CD's - live and alternate; both are bootable; the live CD will load into RAM and give you a fully functional ubuntu desktop - it WILL NOT install anything to your pc HD so any settings are lost after the session is closed; buntu CAN BE installed if the user desires via the install icon on the desktop. the alternate CD will go straight into ubuntu installation routine it will NOT WRITE anything to HD UP TO PARTITIONER STEP where prompted if you allow changes to be written to disk. pls follow the procedure of burning the iso to CD as outlined in ubuntu help

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto#InUbuntu

about gparted - we'll not go into detail about this subject now - let's see how things go with the above first.

...'Uhmmm, not sure about primary, extended, active and all that'.... the accepted good standard practice ia that on a HDD there may be 4 partitions or less - all pri or 3pri + 1 extended; the extended partition may contain volumes (or logical partitions) up to 15. at any one time there can not be but one active that to say bootable partition active. all this can be accomplished in xp with computer mgm't in control panel. gparted can do same in linux/ubuntu or via a bootable CD that can be found on the net.

so, just do your best and uninstall WUBI first and let us know how things go, we;ll continue after that.

peter b

ps. if xp system WAS installed to internal HD and only data is present on the external HD there should be no problem whatsoever in having the external disconnected - xp will still boot but the data on the external will not be there obviously. as far as ubuntu is concerned on external HD obviously if the HD is not there it can not be booted/used.

hmmm, reopening ... status is solved for some reason.

Whew .. I frequently boot XP with the external drive powered down/disconnected if that means anything. I

 bought the notebook from Dell with XP on the internal C: drive. Started running out of space and bought the 250G USB HDD. Since then, I have installed new programs to XP and when asked where, I have said E:\Program Files\foldername. Sure enough, on the external drive is a folder Program Files\newfoldername with the program installation in it. I have also created folders on the external (ie: Docs) with data files in them.

It is my firm belief I can UNinstall all PROGRAMS from E:\Program Files and copy all DATA files to a CD, DELETE THE EMPTY PROGRAM FILES FOLDER, and drive E: should be empty BUT YOU KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS THAN I DO. I REPEAT, SYSTEM RUNS JUST FINE WITH EXTERNAL DRIVE DISCONNECTED ... NO ERRORS, NO NOTHING; just some 'blank' links on my desktop.

This brings a new dimension to the whole thing. "Program Files folder is A XP SYSTEM FOLDER so if it goes xp WILL NOT BOOT ANY LONGER. sure there are SOME subfolders (applications) in Program Files that were installed AFTER xp install - these can no doubt be reinstalled provided that they were saved before BUT Program Files main folder MUST BE THERE, it was created by xp install and usually is in the partition where xp lives IT IS A XP SYSTEM FOLDER!!" HOLY CRAP!! REALLY??????? OK THEN.

When you say uninstall Wubi .. here is what it says on the site:
How do I uninstall it?
You uninstall it as any other applications. In Windows go to the control panel and select "Add or Remove Programs", then select Wubi/Ubuntu and uninstall it. You can also use the uninstaller that you find in the installation folder.

I have done this already at least once .. and the result is Wubi and Ubuntu disappears from my system and I am back to where I was before Linux came into my life. Is this what you mean by 'uninstall Wubi'? If so, I fully expected to.

AND ... I just found this on the Wubi website:
Can I move my virtual disk file to a dedicated partition?
You can use LVPM to transfer your installation. A guide and support forum for LVPM is available here. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=438591

but I really don't mind uninstalling UBUNTU, particularly if it avoids more work.

So .. your 'First things first' is meant to mean uninstall the WUBI installation of Ubuntu ... right?

"just a hint - pls make a distinction between DATA file/folders and SYSTEM files/folders." DATA files ... .jpg pictures, .txt notes, .pdf, ... files not hooked to anything. Program files ... files compiled/provided as part of a software product and are "installed' to XP as applications such as _ISource21.dll, DupDetector.exe, Dupdetector.Hlp, and other supportive files in its folder.

So, here is what I'm going to do ... Go to Add/Remove Programs in XP and uninstall Ubuntu which will eliminate Ubuntu and Wubi from my system. I will reboot to confirm all is OK. I will UNINSTALL every software product that reside in E:\Program Files rendering E: Program Files an empty folder. I will copy all DATA FILES to a CD. I will attempt to delete the remaining E:\Program Files folder. I will reboot the machine to a supposedly empty E: Drive. I will get back to you when this is done. Thank you again ... Sir.

....'I frequently boot XP with the external drive powered down/disconnected if that means anything'.....

that's good, excellent I should say - PLS DO NOT TOUCH c:/Program Files folder - whatever is there MUST STAY THERE; you will lose any other applications installed to e:/Program Files UNTIL you reinstall them AFTER the new partitions are setup the way you want. if you want, those applications installed to e:/Program Files can be uninstalled first; the whole thing rang alarm bells in my mind when you said that there is a Program Files folder on the external HD (I did not know that you installed applications on a folder WITH THE SAME name on external HD as the the xp system folder)

...'So, here is what I'm going to do ... Go to Add/Remove Programs in XP and uninstall Ubuntu which will eliminate Ubuntu and Wubi from my system. I will reboot to confirm all is OK. I will UNINSTALL every software product that reside in E:\Program Files rendering E: Program Files an empty folder. I will copy all DATA FILES to a CD. I will attempt to delete the remaining E:\Program Files folder. I will reboot the machine to a supposedly empty E: Drive. I will get back to you when this is done. Thank you again'.... JUST PROCEED as you say and let us know what happened. we'll continue after that.

WUBI issue, just get rid of it/uninstall it since you want to have the REAL ubuntu installed - the main purpose of this exercise. if you're going for the best why have wubi/second best still there ? 2 os's live on the space of one - in my opinion it is not the best/happy solution.

peter

ps. pls do not call me sir - just peter will do. tu.

OK ... here is what we have ... External Hard Drive (E:) 3 folders Program Files, RECYCLER, and System Volume Information PER Windows XP Explorer

Properties: Local Disk, NTFS, Used space 1.85 GB, Free Space 231 GB. Capacity 232 GB Drive E: PER Windows XP Explorer.

E:\Program Files folder is EMPTY.

E:\RECYCLER folder has one FOLDER in it named:
S-1-5-21-3475665784-2843799583-1584679447-1003 and is dated/timed about the time I booted the machine with external drive connected, 3/4/09 11:53. It contains 2 files: desktop.ini and INFO2

XP Explorer will not allow me to view the contents of E:\System Volume Information folder, Access Denied, but I have a freeware utility that will. 2,196 objects .. folders and files ... too many types to name, of course.

There is no evidence this External Drive has anything else on it. XP will NOT allow me to remove this USB device. Says 'cannot be removed, try later'. I shut down and unplugged this USB HD and powered back up notebook. XP seems to be running normally with no boot errors. I can plug HDD into USB port with XP running and turn on the power to HDD. The device is then seen by XP device manager. I believe a few objects are written to System Volume Information folder because there are 2,200 objects now.

YOU SAID: PLS DO NOT TOUCH c:/Program Files folder - whatever is there MUST STAY THERE

Never touched C:\Program Files folder. I only UNINSTALLED sofware that was installed to XP with the installation folder being in E:\Program Files.

I just deleted the EMPTY E:\Program Files folder and nothing 'bad' seemed to happen. That leaves RECYCLER and System Volume Information folders on E: with the contents of each as described above. I do no know if I should attempt to delete either folder, so am not going to try (probably can't ... access denied or something). I guess these are somehow related to being "XP SYSTEM FOLDERS" which would make sense.

I await your next instructions. I can ... with your instructions, partition E: with whatever ... XP, gparted from Ubuntu CD, or even have a freeware Partition Manager for XP named EaseusPartitionManager.zip that I have never even looked at but it can be Googled FYI.

I will be off the rest of the night ... and back on mid morning USA Central time. Thank you again.

sorry, . this thread says SOLVED. Need to hook this to 'I Still Need an Answer", I guess. Sorry.

all is fine if the PC boots xp WITH NO ERRORS WITHOUT usb external. now, down to partitioning the latter

- boot into xp --> control panel --> computer mgm't (or admin? I don't remember) --> disk (or storage mgm't ?) and click on it - you'll see the 2 HD and the partitions on them; the partition rectangles will have some kind of colour on the upper part depending on what kind they are, pri, extended, system etc.

- right click on THE COLOURED strip OF THE ONLY PARTITION ON THE 250gb HD --> a menu will open with various options such as delete, create, format etc. MAX CAUTION --> BE ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT YOU"RE WORKING WITH THE 250gb HD!!!

- delete the only partition on 250gb HD

- create partitions as you desire --> as I understand about 1/2 cap or 125gb SHOULD BE LEFT as unallocated (no xp partitions) for ubuntu install; at install time ubuntu partitioner will pick that up, show it as FREE SPACE; that IS the space that you MUST PICK AND WORK WITH FOR MANUAL partitioning in ubuntu.

all is v simple and straight forward. keep us posted how things go.

peter b

>>delete the only partition on 250gb HD

Window opens "The request cannot be completed because the volume is open or in use. It may be configured as a system, boot, or pagefile volume, or, to hold a crashdump file."

SECOND window opens "The partition External Hard Drive (E) Primary partition is currently in use. To force the deletion of this partition, click YES. Warning: Forcing a deletion might cause unexpected errors in the application that is using this partition. Do you want to continue? and a Yes button and a No button. Both windows remain open.

I clicked YES and partition deleted. No explosions or flashes of fire. Proceeded to create new partition. 'Wizard' starts and asks Primary partition or Extended. Primary .. a volume you create using free space on a basic disk. Windows and other operating systems can start from a primary partition. You can create up to 4 primary partitions or 3 primary partitions and an extended partition. Extended ... An extended partition is a portion of an MBR basic disk that can contain logical drives. Use an extended partition if you want to have more than 4 volumes on your MBR basic disk.

Uhhhhhhhhhh .I am bettin on Extended. The partition I am creating is the first 1/2 of the physical drive ... needs a drive letter ... and is for XP to use. But I await your instruction.

Googled Extended Primary partitions and found:

The primary partition is only necessary if you wish to make the drive bootable - ie. if you install an operating system on it. If you are using the drive purely for additional data storage, you can simply install an extended partition with logical drives. You will be able to read the drive by transferring it to another computer with an operating system installed that supports the drive's format. However, if you wish to boot the hard drive from scratch, you'll need to not only install a primary partition, but install an operating system on that partition as well.

Well... this drive should be 'bootable' to UBUNTU, but the UBUNTU install will take care of that using 'free space' remaining after I create this EXTENDED partition. Right now, I want an Extended partition ... 1/2 of the drive and a drive letter ... booting is not involved because it is just storage for XP. But I still await your instruction.

just make the partition primary - that is the first 1/2 of HD ; it will be used to hold data avail to both win and ubuntu. this partition should be nonbootable. letter - accept partitioner suggestion (may be e: or whatever). file system - your choice fat32 or ntfs - I'd opt for ntfs it's a journaling fs.

we'll make ubuntu / partition bootable with grub installed on it not to MBR.

once again, pls leave the other 1/2 of HD unallocated - that'll be partitioned using the manual option in ubuntu partitioner; I'd suggest that to be an extended part with volumes.

btw, AFTER 250gb HD part deleted did you try rebooting xp with the external HD hooked up ?

peter b

OK, .. answer to prompt is PRIMARY. accept suggested drive lettr. File system NTFS.

Do nothing AT ALL with what is left over on HDD.

"btw, AFTER 250gb HD part deleted did you try rebooting xp with the external HD hooked up ?"

No, but I will now ... and resume from there assuming no problems indicated.

Stopped ... rebooted no problems after deleting E: partition.

Went back, created PRIMARY partition of 1/2 of E:. Window opens with 3 choices

Assign the following drive letter E and this is defaulted with a bullet checked.

Option to bullet "Mount the following empty NTFS folder" and an empty box for a path OR a button to browse.

Option to bullet "Do not assign a drive letter or path".

First (default/bulletted) option makes sense. Don't know what to do with 2nd option ... leave it unbulletted or ?

OH ... I think I misunderstood .. it is either/or not either/AND. Taking first bullet ... Assign to driveletter E. Sorry.

OK .. it's done ... just one question .. there was an option to 'enable compression' and I did NOT select it. The partition for 1/2 of the HDD is assigned Drive E: and is formatting NOW.

....'Assign the following drive letter E and this is defaulted with a bullet checked.'....

that's all - do not use/enter anything on any other options; let it format the thing and that's that. xp will recognize that new partition. after everything finished reboot into xp and you'll see the new partition empty.

from here you're ok to proceed with ubuntu install. suggestion - BEFORE proceeding with ubuntu install pls google for howtos re ubuntu dual booting - v important. I'll have to find a similar situation that I helped and indicate it to you on next post.

peter

here's an url that'll help you in installing ubuntu with xp already installed - it'll allow you to dual boot (either xp or ubuntu)

https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/55801

no compression - good choice.

peter

just noticed something on last url that's not consistent with what I said in a previous post

...'we'll make ubuntu / partition bootable with grub installed on it not to MBR.'....

if you decide to use the last url as a guide for ubuntu install then PLS CONTACT ME - there is a small BUT important little change in the partitioner phase; I'll let you know.

peter b

ps. if you consider that this helped you in solving this ticket then please close it as solved.

Everything finished 'OK'. I rebooted machine and every thing looks "OK". XP sees and accesses the new partition on USB HDD E:. It appears to be the right size. I shut down, disconnected USB drive and booted up. Everything looks completely normal (no Drive E: shown). I booted up again with drive connected and looked at Drive E: and it is empty except for one folder: System Volume Information. I think so far, so good.

One thing I should mention .. When I turn on the machine .. before Windows splash screen, there is an option to hit F2 for Dell Diagnostics. It runs a LOW LEVEL diagnostics on memory, HD, Video etc etc. I am sure it is located in a partition on internal HDD. It is indicated in Disk Managment as follows as 'no drive letter':

Volume Layout Type File System Status Capacity Free Space

no drive letter Partition Basic FAT Healthy (EISA Configuration) 31MB 24MB
(C:) Partition Basic NTFS Healthy (System) 55.85GB 11.96GB
(E) Partition Basic NTFS Healthy 116.44 116.44GB

Dunno if that will effect our next step or not. I just remembered it is there.

"if you decide to use the last url as a guide for ubuntu ..." I take that to mean https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/55801. It is a thread as long or longer than this one, and I am highly intimidated by it. I am wondering if we are trying to do something I am not clear on.

I pictured Dual Boot ... XP or UBUNTU. Pick XP. XP sees all of Drive C: and 1/2 of Drive E. Pick UBUNTU. UBUNTU sees 1/2 of Drive E: end of story. I get the feeling you are striving to make this recent partition we just made shareable between XP and Ubuntu. If it makes anything easier .. I don't intend to do that. If I need an XP file in Ubuntu, I will copy it to USB "MEMORY stick" (as I call 'em), dual boot to UBUNTU and access the file from memory stick. Then again, I may not understand what we are trying to do OR I am making a mistake in NOT sharing the partition. I leave our next step up to you.

ok, everything done and accomplished as I have expected.

now, just to make your life a little easier in installing ubuntu

- back to xp --> boot into it and go back to cmp mgm't --> disk mgm't --> right click on THE UNALLOCATED SPACE OF 250gb (the other 1/2 that was not touched) and just create an EXTENDED partition (no formatting needed) it'll be created and the space will appear as unallocated and that's it with partitioning in xp; from here on it'll be ubuntu's partitioner job to create the partitions it needs to get installed.

- then just google for the easiest dual boot = win+ubuntu = that suits you; there are plenty around and let me know which one you prefer (indicate its url); I'll look it up and give you my comments/recommendations applicable to your specifics.

- also make sure to have ready a good/workable ubuntu CD be it live or alternate (just let me know which one you have - the install procedure as said are different).

when I'll have all these pieces of info we're ready to proceed installing ubuntu.

peter b

>>- back to xp --> boot into it and go back to cmp mgm't --> disk mgm't --> ..... DONE AND OK.

>>from here on it'll be ubuntu's partitioner job to create the partitions it needs to get installed.

OK, .. I am trying to remember exactly .. I originally went to www.ubuntu.com and downloaded 8.10 64 bit. It arrived as an ISO file. I burned it to a CD. Before ever running it, I noticed "Even More Options" mentioning "The Windows based "Wubi" installer. Went there, clicked on "Try Wubi Now" and downloaded wubi.exe .99MB to XP desktop and ran it. I expected it to ask for the CD I burned but it didn't. It downloaded 8.10 64-bit and installed it WUBI STYLE .. WITHIN WINDOWS. We have since uninstalled it and done all this work.

If I put that CD in the drive IN xp, .. a window opens. Top button "Demo and full installation". Middle button "Install Inside Windows". Bottom button "Learn More".

Eject.

COLD boot to CD. Get 5 choices. Try Ubuntu without making any changes to computer. Install Ubuntu. Check CD for defects. Test Memory Boot from 1st HD.

booting from 1st HD boots up XP.

I am still very confused about 'live cd' ... 'alternate cd' etc. It appears to me the CD I burned should, IF COLD BOOTED and with SECOND CHOICE (Install Ubuntu), be all we need to do, .. but .. whatever you say, indeed.

I can not tell you what you've got, what kind of CD; the REAL/GENUINE latest released distro ubuntu called intrepid is provided at the url below; pls use

http://releases.ubuntu.com/8.10/

and select/download desktop version for your pc cpu (iso file) - I understand that you have a 64 bit cpu so either live CD or alternate CD will do; then check the md5sum of the downloaded iso file against the md5sum for your particular iso and burn it in accordance with instructions given on the link

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto

more info

https://help.ubuntu.com/community
http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot
http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/installing

the above will help you get and create a good reliable install CD and much more.

peter

http://releases.ubuntu.com/8.10/ Shows 3 possible 64bit CDs. I am downloading the FIRST one just below and will burn it as soon as it finishes:

Desktop CD
The desktop CD allows you to try Ubuntu without changing your computer at all, and at your option to install it permanently later. This type of CD is what most people will want to use. You will need at least 256MB of RAM to install from this CD.

64-bit PC (AMD64) desktop CD

Server install CD
The server install CD allows you to install Ubuntu permanently on a computer for use as a server. It will not install a graphical user interface.

64-bit PC (AMD64) server install CD

Alternate install CD
The alternate install CD allows you to perform certain specialist installations of Ubuntu. It provides for the following situations:
setting up automated deployments;
upgrading from older installations without network access;
LVM and/or RAID partitioning;
installs on systems with less than about 256MB of RAM (although note that low-memory systems may not be able to run a full desktop environment reasonably).
In the event that you encounter a bug using the alternate installer, please file a bug on the debian-installer package.

64-bit PC (AMD64) alternate install CD

OK, ... downloaded, hash checked, and burnt.

good; did you find a howto dual boot that suits you best ? if yes pls post url here.

btw, the ubuntu CD that you created is also commonly known as 'live CD'; you can start your pc with this CD plugged into your CD drive and let it do its thing - it WILL NOT do any changes to your pc at all; you'll end up with a fully functional ubuntu desktop where there'll be an icon called install.

BEFORE pressing the install icon as said, get v familiar with the install procedure/steps for installing ubuntu OFF LIVE CD for a dual boot config. just remember - once into install procedure there is no more url page instructions available unless you have another pc or you have some kind of hard copies available to refer to.

peter

"good; did you find a howto dual boot that suits you best ? if yes pls post url here." http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/installing

In fact ... while waiting for you, I started with their procedure. Got all the way to the partition manager .. even picked OPTION 4 .... MANUAL (for partition scheme). Don't worry, .. I QUIT before making ANY CHANGES.

In option 4, ... a window shows all devices and their partitions and their 'status'. At the top is Drive C: .. which I don't want to touch. Going on down ... JUST ABOVE THE BOTTOM one is Drive E: partition that we set up for XP ... 1/2 of the external drive. BELOW THAT, is the OTHER 1/2 OF THE DRIVE indicating FREE SPACE. At that point, ... I stopped, for two reasons:

1. Did not have your approval/instruction to do this.
2. The window had a button (not check box) in it "NEW PARTITION" but also a button "FORWARD (next).

I knew to highlight the FREE SPACE with the mouse (selecting that drive and free space on it), but did not know whether to click FORWARD or the button for NEW PARTITION. PROBABLY NEW PARTITION then FORWARD. In any case, I quit.

So, .. with that little bit of info, I think I can handle this ... but will, of course, wait to hear back from you first.

callin it a night. Will check back 3/6/09 AM.

that's good, perfect.

now, you'd have to as I mentioned to get v familiar with the install procedure especially the partitioner BEFORE proceeding BEYOND the point you mentioned.

a more detailed and better howto I recommend

http://mywebsite.bigpond.net.au/dfelderh/linuxmaniac/p23.html

partitioner --> it applies to your case STARTING at step 4 of 7 fig 028;

fig 029, make say 25000 part for /

030 and 031 OK THEN STOP !!

next - as done in 028 above highlight FREE SPACE AGAIN --> create partition--> fig029 make say 1000 swap

030 and 031 OK

then continue with step 5 of 7 fig 17; just forget step 6 of 7 (enter nothing) fig 18 and continue with step 7 of 7 fig 34

and that's about it - press install and let it do its thing.

peter

Followed all instructions precisely. Install looked OK as far as HD activity. Finished install and got to Restart Machine:

Grub Loading stage 1.5.
GRUB loading, please wait...
Error 22

just so you know ... googled "grub error 22" and am reading about it here:
http://www.neowin.net/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t405091.html

but I'm not doing anything until I hear from you. I'm on another notebook at the moment.

sure looks like this could help us:
http://www.supergrubdisk.org/index.php

first off

- boot your pc with xp CD and use repair option with recovery console then log in and at console prompt enter

fixmbr

command then

exit

and reboot pc

tell me if you can boot xp. we'll continue after that.

peter

yes, .., XP boots.

ok, now pls boot off ubuntu live CD (the one used for install) let it do its thing , get the desktop, open a terminal and at prompt enter

sudo grub

you should get a prompt like so

grub> <cursor>

at cursor enter

find /boot/grub/stage1

copy/paste output of last cmd. we'll continue after that.

peter

grub> find /boot/grub/stage1
 (hd2,4)
grub>

something does not make sense - while in ubuntu if still at grub prompt pls do

geometry (hd0)

geometry (hd1)

geometry (hd2)

then just get out of grub by

quit

then at normal prompt pls do

sudo fdisk -l

that's lower L. pls post output of all cmds so I can see them.

peter

grub> geometry (hd0)
geometry (hd0)
drive 0x80: C/H/S = 7296/255/63, The number of sectors = 117210240, /dev/sda
   Partition num: 0, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0xde
   Partition num: 1, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x7
grub> geometry (hd1)
geometry (hd1)
drive 0x81: C/H/S = 98048/5/32, The number of sectors = 15687680, /dev/sdb
   Partition num: 0, Filesystem type is fat, partition type 0xc
grub> geometry (hd2)
geometry (hd2)
drive 0x82: C/H/S = 30401/255/63, The number of sectors = 488397168, /dev/sdc
   Partition num: 0, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x7
   Partition num: 4, Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83
   Partition num: 5, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x82
grub> quit
quit
ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ sudo fdisk -l

Disk /dev/sda: 60.0 GB, 60011642880 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 7296 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0xd0f4738c

   Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 1 4 32098+ de Dell Utility
/dev/sda2 * 5 7295 58564957+ 7 HPFS/NTFS

Disk /dev/sdb: 8032 MB, 8032092160 bytes
5 heads, 32 sectors/track, 98048 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 160 * 512 = 81920 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00000000

   Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sdb1 51 98048 7839808 c W95 FAT32 (LBA)

Disk /dev/sdc: 250.0 GB, 250059350016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 30401 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x46e9d5a5

   Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sdc1 1 15200 122093968+ 7 HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sdc2 15201 18361 25390732+ 5 Extended
/dev/sdc5 15201 18239 24410736 83 Linux
/dev/sdc6 18240 18361 979933+ 82 Linux swap / Solaris
ubuntu@ubuntu:~$

=========
Possible reasons for 'something is not making sense':

1. I mentioned this earlier way up the thread:
One thing I should mention .. When I turn on the machine .. before Windows splash screen, there is an option to hit F2 for Dell Diagnostics. It runs a LOW LEVEL diagnostics on memory, HD, Video etc etc. I am sure it is located in a partition on internal HDD. It is indicated in Disk Managment as follows as 'no drive letter':

Volume Layout Type File System Status Capacity Free Space
no drive letter Partition Basic FAT Healthy (EISA Configuration) 31MB 24MB <<<<<<<<<<<<
(C:) Partition Basic NTFS Healthy (System) 55.85GB 11.96GB
(E) Partition Basic NTFS Healthy 116.44 116.44GB

2. I sometimes have an 8G 'memory stick' plugged in when I do this stuff and sometimes not.

sda or (hd0) in grub is the internal HDD with

    sda1 part that contains the dell stuff
    sda2 xp NTFS fs

sdb or(hd1) is your pen drive (usb connected) that' a fat fs

sdc or (hd2) is the 250gb external HDD with

    sdc1 part that contains the data that we created (1/2 of 250gb) NTFS fs
    sdc2 EXTENDED
    sdc5 ubuntu /
    sdc6 swap

so, all is fine and good. now, before getting things fixed up. I would like you to end ubuntu session, power down the pc, remove the pen drive and reboot the pc with ubuntu live CD and repeat the last set of cmds just to see how the drives are mapped WITHOUT the pen drive. it is v important for fixing grub -you'll see.

in addition to the last set of cmds PLS run in grub

find /boot/grub/stage1

once more. we'll fix grub according to THIS configuration (WITHOUT the PEN DRIVE INSERTED) - V V IMPORTANT FROM NOW ON --> ALWAYS INSERT THE PEN DRIVE AFTER either xp or ubuntu are LOADED they'll be recognized BUT WILL NOT INTERFERE with the mapping of the the internal and external HD; pls keep this in mind.

pls post the output of the last 4 cmds (only two for geometry...., one for fdisk.... and one for find...) so I can see them and go from there fixing the boot.

btw, at ubuntu install time was the pen drive inserted ?

peter

I am sorry, I do not recall whether pen drive was in or not.
------------------
grub> geometry (hd0)
geometry (hd0)
drive 0x80: C/H/S = 7296/255/63, The number of sectors = 117210240, /dev/sda
   Partition num: 0, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0xde
   Partition num: 1, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x7
grub> geometry (hd1)
geometry (hd1)
drive 0x81: C/H/S = 30401/255/63, The number of sectors = 488397168, /dev/sdb
   Partition num: 0, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x7
   Partition num: 4, Filesystem type is ext2fs, partition type 0x83
   Partition num: 5, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x82
grub>

ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ sudo fdisk -l

Disk /dev/sda: 60.0 GB, 60011642880 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 7296 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0xd0f4738c

   Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 1 4 32098+ de Dell Utility
/dev/sda2 * 5 7295 58564957+ 7 HPFS/NTFS

Disk /dev/sdb: 250.0 GB, 250059350016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 30401 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x46e9d5a5

   Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sdb1 1 15200 122093968+ 7 HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sdb2 15201 18361 25390732+ 5 Extended
/dev/sdb5 15201 18239 24410736 83 Linux
/dev/sdb6 18240 18361 979933+ 82 Linux swap / Solaris
ubuntu@ubuntu:~$

grub> find /boot/grub/stage1
find /boot/grub/stage1
 (hd1,4)
grub> quit
quit

it looks ok now; while still in grub prompt pls do

root (hd1,4)

then

setup (hd0)

some output will be generated with 'succeeded ' then

quit

end session, remove cd, power down pc, start pc, grub should come up.

let me know how it went.

peter

as instructed, .. restart to multiple boot menu. Choos XP .. .OK, ... choose Ubuntu OK. Looks like we have attained success. Even the Dell "Utility Partition" shows.

All I can do is say thank you. You are indeed an expert. thank you once again.

happy that I could be of help. the only thing pls close this ticket as solved.

cheerios,

peter b

I would sure like to, but there is still a problem. Maybe no solution. I stated the following way up at the beginning of the thread:

"Assuming all of the following is correct and performed, I read where I will not be able to boot into EITHER OS unless the external drive is connected to the notebook. Is this true? If so ... I may have to find a work-around for that. There will be times when I need to boot XP without the external (external needs wall plug; it's a notebook computer). I think THIS needs to be resolved FIRST."

I assumed since it was not mentioned, it was not a concern. I suppose you missed reading it. Well, it turns out notebook will not boot unless external HD is running (off a wall plug) and connected. Won't boot to Ubuntu or XP. Otherwise, .. works great. Being this negates the entire portability of the system, it is regrettable we proceeded. I don't know if I am going to leave it like it is, try to find a workaround, or undo everything we have done. This is most unfortunate and regrettable. The warning should be made much more public and all this work could be avoided. I should have brought it up again, but I assumed the entire thread was read when we started and it must not be an issue.

Now, I don't know whether to close the thread or not .. sortof hoping to hear a workaround. If there is not one soon, I will close it,

yes. that is true by the v nature of win-ubuntu dual booting WITH one HD being an external usb connected where ubuntu resides with its grub conf files and MBR on internal hd0.

workarounds, not sure, -grub can be set up at install time such that could have been installed on / PBR and make hd1 bootable - to be absolutely honest I never did such an install on a system similar with yours (hd0 internal and linux on hd1 usb connected - AT RANDOM - external HD) and because of that I can not tell you whether it'll work or not. however it can be tried and seen whether it succeeds or not if you decide that; al tools needed are already in this thread, so

- first, the MBR must be reconfigured such that it;ll boot xp again - see above how we've done it
- second, just do a new ubuntu install as we've done USING THE SAME partitions (overwriting them) EXCEPT that this time WE'LL MAKE / PARTITION BOOTABLE how ? from

http://mywebsite.bigpond.net.au/dfelderh/linuxmaniac/p23.html

take a look at step 7 fig35 where INSTEAD of (hd0) on Device for boot loader installation MUST BE ENTERED EITHER

(hd1)

for one option OR

(hd1,4)

which is same as

/dev/sdb5

for another option. the above are valid in your case provided THERE IS NO other usb HD connected.

as said in the url's howto comments (the author himself never tested these settings) and consistent with my experience it is just a matter of what works sort to speak in a pc setup like yours with extra requirements of FULL BOOTING FLEXIBILITY WHEN A HD IS DISCONNECTED. I did a lot of installs on pc's setup with multiple HD's doesn't matter internal or external usb connected and you could see that it works but never tested or if what grub install option works with the extra requirement of having HD's disconnected. Maybe somebody else has such experience and have better answers. It is obviously your choice whether give it try and see if it works or pure and simple have somebody else with more experience than me solve your requirements.

another thing comes to mind looking at this thread - yes indeed it is quite awkward to carry around an usb external HD externally powered which apparently you;ve got. As I said I did a lot of dual boot installs on laptops with usb external HD's BUT invariably all had usb powered HD's very small and quite large capacities some were 500gb; all were WD Passport model that pure and simple fit into a shirt pocket and probably weighed something like 4-5 oz. but this is not my business to stick my nose into - it is obviously your choice what hardware to use.

and that'll be it if you decide to pursue this avenue then see whether you can get xp and ubuntu to boot in any pc setup - with or without the external usb HD connected.

the other avenue - have somebody else with more experience than me get your requirements met as stated. your choice. if you decide to pursue this option then Just

- first, the MBR must be reconfigured such that it;ll boot xp again - see above how we've done it
- second, in xp under disk mgm't just delete the EXTENDED partition; you;ll be left with 1/2 of 250gb formatted NOT ALL as it was when this thread started; if you want the entire 250gb to contain just one part as it was then delete first the pri part that we created and create a partition that spand all 250gb.

regards,
peter b

Ok, Peter. Were I a Linuxhead, I would be interested in experimenting, and I may still try to get it to work. I also have no qualms with a POWERED USB drive ... just did not think of it. Seems I could use one of those and the problem is a done deal ... just wonder how much power they suck up.

Anyway, .. not sure what I am going to do ... but thank you for your excellent work and patience with me. If nothing else, a powered usb drive is the solution and you brilliantly pointed it out. T U again.

Thanks peter b, that solved my question.

jfbooth,

after my post I pondered about the whole situation having in mind your main (I think) desire - a dual boot xp-ubuntu laptop fully portable and independent - and asked myself why on earth didn't I propose to you a much simpler and elegant solution to accomplish this task.

let me explain, you've got a (quite) large - internal HD of some 60gb capacity, more than ample to accommodate the two os's and then some - say 20gb for xp and 20gb for ubuntu is more than enough with the balance for data or, your choice of splitting the 60gb just between the 2 with no data part; this kind of setup is slick, elegant and selfstanding AND V IMPORTANT is fully bootable of either os WITHOUT THE NEED of an external usb connected HD/device.

ran short of data storage ? NO PROBLEM - just hook up another usb device be it HD, SSD, pen drive etc THAT IS IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE to both os's with full read, write , execute permissions. want ONLY certain partitions of it avail to only a certain os ? no problem it can be configured accordingly.

to implement such solution the only thing needed obviously IS YOUR SCALING DOWN OF THE REQUIREMENTS, to have ubuntu on the INTERNAL HD NOT ON THE usb external HD.

I can tell you here and now, most of the installs I've done are along the lines outlined above and the higher the position the pc owner occupies the more likely is his/her request to have his/her pc set up like that. in the past year with the appearance of eeePC's equipped with SSD drives, dual booting on 16gb and 40gb is common occurrence along with the DATA storage always present in the purse or pocket of either WD passport usb powered conventional HD or usb connected high capacity SSD expresscards or pure and simple high capacity sdhc cards plugged into eeepc's slot.

it is your call, the decision is yours, stick to 'your guns' so to speak or accept the slick and elegant solutions above. whatever your decision is you have all the tools needed in this thread.

regards,
peter b

Of course you, your expertise, and experience probably do know best. The reason I proposed 60G XP 125G XP External, and 125 Ubuntu External is because I bought the 250G drive due to the 60G filling from XP and data files. When I took an interest in Ubuntu 60G was 'fairly' full which is why I had a lot of applications installed to E:\Program Files. E: was not even 1/4 used so I thought give 1/2 to XP and the other 1/2 to Ubuntu. Of course I would not ever have really needed the 250G USB drive if I simply put some data files on CD/DVDs ... but it was cheaper and quicker to just buy the 250G.

It so happens that IF I have programs on E: for XP and the E: External drive is not connected or not powered on, those programs are simply not available to XP .. it runs no problem with what is installed for XP on C:

I don't know if that would be the case with Ubuntu. Does it run if installed programs are not available to it as XP does? If not, I am back at the same problem ... have to have the external to run at least Linux .. if not either XP or Linux. If NOT, I can also go to a USB powered drive as you suggested. The key word here is Yes or No ... Ubuntu on one drive and installed Linux programs on another and how it responds to that.

You are absolutely right .. All things given. no problem with XP and Ubuntu -64 on the 60GB HD. I can put a lot of data files on cd/dvd or as you said, use 250G for data files for both OS's.

I know I am repeating myself, .. just want to make it clear .... XP/Ubuntu on 60G .. pictures, music, word processing files (data files to me) ... throw 'em on 250G. Add a product to XP, install it to C:\Program files OR E:\XP Program files. Ubuntu on C: also ... throw its 'data files' on E:. Add a product to UBUNTU, install it to Ubuntu on C: or E:... just like XP. THIS IS THE ROOT OF THE ENTIRE ISSUE .. I could not conceive how to do that with Ubuntu as it seems to just install anything and everything to its own 'place' or partition. That would make the 60G holding XP OS, Ubuntu OS and a growing UBUNTU residence as I install programs to it ... but not XP. Here, my ignorance bit me. That is the main question .. YES, YOU CAN DO THAT .. JUST LIKE YOU DO WITH XP or NOPE, CAN'T DO THAT, .UBUNTU 'stuff' has to be installed on the same parition as Ubuntu. Then ... beyond the question itself, if yes, how do I do it? It pretty much boils down to my ignorance about Linux File System. If I have the same latitude in Linux programs installed to E: as I do XP programs, indeed, let us please put XP and UBUNTU on C: (60G).

Of course I would want to get some space available on XP, .. and defrag etc. Off hand, don't even know how much space to make available.. with Swap files etc involved. I would need your help with that. Let me know and I will start making some space.

So, if you agree to tutor me a 'little' on installing programs to UBUNTU but utilize E: space to do it and tell me how much space to 'make' on C:, I totally agree ... that is the smoothest way to go.

Thank you again for thinking in my best interest as you have done throughout this experience. I have limited your work by my ignorance of Linux. I apologize.

I don't know what I am doing wrong, but that click says there is one error. Guess I need to click 'need answer' instead of add comment. Sorry.

jfbooth,

the things are v simple - an os of xp and ubuntu caliber (I'am not talking here of something like vista that has proven itself over and over to be a .....) require for good steady operation in xp's case something like, tops, approx 10-12gb with ALL other extra apps that 'want' to be part of the system itself (even the xp64 I could see that WILL not need more than that); on the ubuntu side the needs are smaller - a 9-10gb are more than sufficient (there is no need of defragmentation, virus protection and the like) the rest is all user generated DATA that can be stored on ANY kind of media that can be online or not - obviously the user must judge WHAT and where this data is stored and how and when needed so that the os can 'see it' and act on it.

so you can see where I'm coming from - 60gb for both os's as I said is MORE THAN AMPLE to accommodate both - all DATA can be stored elsewhere and made available by the user to the os's as needed. sure the larger the data storage media is more data can be made available to the os; again as I said, that is not an issue these days with small slick fast reliable technology storage devices available at relatively low cost.

about tutoring 'a little', this site as you could see is dedicated to answering questions to ubuntu users that are in need of help in solving a very specific problem; volunteers like me will strive to do do just that, contributing in this way to the ubuntu community. I hope you noticed that this is not a user tutoring site; doing that will not serve the main idea of what this site is. there are other avenues to accomplish that, there are forums, tutoring sites, plenty of howtos, documentation etc. sure we can share with the user how and where similar problems were solved and offer our own knowledge and experience re that specific issue. the hardware and non ubuntu software used by the user as well as the way are set up his/her pc and devices is user's responsibility, we can offer alternatives.

one more thing, ubuntu/linux is a huge os; I'm learning every day something new; in my opinion doing things in ubuntu is the best tool that widens one's knowledge and experience.

regards,
peter b

Fair enough. I do see where you are coming from and I am with you 100%.

"require for good steady operation in xp's case something like, tops, approx 10-12gb with ALL other extra apps that 'want' to be part of the system itself (even the xp64 I could see that WILL not need more than that); on the ubuntu side the needs are smaller - a 9-10gb are more than sufficient"

So, let us split the 60G into two 30G and have XP on one and Ubuntu on the othe, please. Right now, XP's "space use" is 13.4G on C: and 33.4G on the External drive and that is with a ton of DATA files I can move elsewhere.

Tell me what prep needs to be done and I will do it. Thank you.

Thanks peter b, that solved my question.