Ubuntu

Hardy 8.04 freezing regularly

Asked by jdfilburn

Irrelevant History:
1. You'll be dealing with a biochemist, so be sure to type your responses slowly.
2. Former Windows MCE user, who got frustrated with its instability.
3. Took my Sony VAIO RA-910G into shop. Their diagnostics revealed no hardware defects, viruses, etc.
4. Encouraged by reports of ease of use, speed, and stability of Hardy 8.04, I saved what I needed, formatted everything, and made complete conversion. (No partitioning)
5. Everything was sunshine and lollipops for a couple of weeks. Began bragging about myself and Hardy at work.
6. Last couple of weeks have been unbearable, with system freezing constantly. In fact, I wonder if I will finish this post. Reminiscent of previous OS! No changes to hardware. Only install updates when the icon tells me to.
7. 4 weeks ago, I looked like a hero to my family. Now I am perceived as a dolt. My wife, a stay at home mom, just needs a stable platform with access to the outside world via Yahoo! mail. My oldest kid is a very impressionable 4 years old, and I fear this experience will turn him into one of those technology-hating freaks.
8. I am very close to throwing in the towel on this experiment, eBay-ing this PC, buying a new one, and in all likelihood, starting down this same road anew (with >1,000 fewer dollars). How depressing.

Symptoms:
1. Freezes sporadically. No particular action has been noticed to cause the event.
2. Often forced to perform hard reboot. Learned about the alt-prscrn+reisub the other day, but that doesn't work every time.
3. Upon reboot, it usually hangs on the VAIO splash screen (before the Intel splash and before the GRUB), forcing yet another hard reboot. That second one usually works.
4. Since I happen to notice it most during the (automatic) slideshow, I turned it off, as well as all effects. Wife likes the slideshow, however, and I thought the effects were nice.

Needs:
1. I can troubleshoot a lot of things. Linux/Ubuntu isn't one of them.
2. Somebody to walk me through the troubleshooting. I know that's not exciting, but remember I'm a biochemist.
3. I'll post whatever you need, but you'll probably have to include how to get it.

If you made it this far, you are probably my Nero. I apologize about the lengthy post.

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Revision history for this message
Sam_ (and-sam) said : 		#1

Hi,
does Ubuntu make a regular device check after every 30 boot or so?
If not, 'fsck [device]' checks if the filesystem is corrupted.

http://webtools.live2support.com/linux/

I would try it with the splash turned off.
For this you have to edit the menu.lst and of course always making a backup before editing system files.
You can open it via terminal typing
sudo gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst
Password: .... ##you'll type blind

In the section
# defoptions=quiet splash language=de_DE
write nosplash instead of splash.

Also you can try some more options by adding to this line e.g.
noapic
or
nolapic

Example:
#defoptions=quiet nosplash language=whatever_you_use noapic

Finally, a system is not out of a sudden shiny anymore, it would help a lot if you could remember and describe changes you have made before the freezes.
Thanks.

Revision history for this message
jdfilburn (jdfilburn) said : 		#2

Thank you for the suggestions. Unfortunately, I have little to report, except additional freezes since my post.

When I opened menu.1st, nothing was displayed. No lines, no characters...nothing. So I couldn't make your recommended edits.

And since I didn't get that far, I didn't run the 'fsck [device]' command. By the way, is that what I'm supposed to type exactly, or does 'device' really mean I should be point it to something specific?

Regarding any changes made before the freezes, I do not recall anything extraordinary. I am concerned about my video card/tv tuner, which is an ATI x600. I have long suspected that is a problematic device.

I know this isn't a specific response. If you'd rather me fetch something, just point me to it.

Revision history for this message
marcobra (Marco Braida) (marcobra) said : 		#3

To force an hard disk check

Open a Terminal from the menu Applications->Accessories->Terminal and type:

sudo touch /forcefsck

give your user password when requested, you don't see nothing when you type it, then press enter.

Then reboot your pc. Ubuntu will make an hard disk check.

Hope this helps

Revision history for this message
jdfilburn (jdfilburn) said : 		#4

Ok....forced the hard disk check.

Experience:
Typed in command recommended by marcobra.
Closed open programs, then selected restart.
Upon restart, display showed a lot of garbage for about 5 seconds, then began loading the GRUB. Normally the text is in white, this time it was an ugly shade of mustard yellow.
But it got through loading the GRUB, and then the screen went dark.
Waited 10 minutes, then I performed a hard shutdown.
Upon 2nd restart, same as above. Waited another 10 minutes, then I performed a hard shutdown.
Upon 3rd restart, no screen garbage, and the text was back to white. Screen still went black. After yet another 10 minutes, hard shutdown.
Upon 4th restart, I went into 'recovery mode.'
Finally saw the hard disk check proceed.
When that completed, I selected continue in normal mode, and it was successful.

And here I am.

Is there a log or results that I need to find & fetch?

Revision history for this message
marcobra (Marco Braida) (marcobra) said : 		#5

A test that you can do is RAM test, at boot when you see the GRUB row press ESC and choose the memory test item
and please test your RAM for defect (run the test for many hours)

Hope this helps

Revision history for this message
jdfilburn (jdfilburn) said : 		#6

Thank you for your kind help and patience.

Attempted to run the memory test. It didn't seem to work. This error was displayed:

"Error 28: Selected item does not fit into memory"

?

Revision history for this message
Sam_ (and-sam) said : 		#7

Hi,
the error description is here:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/hermanzone/p15.htm#28
Quote:
[Selected item cannot fit into memory
This error is returned if a kernel, module, or raw file load command is either trying to load its data such that it won't fit into memory or it is simply too big.]
According to a search with the error message, it could have something to do with the BIOS or GRUB, depending on system specifications.

However, are you able to boot normal until the desktop at the moment?

You can find out the size of modules and kernel via terminal by typing these separate commands
#du -sh /lib/modules/*
#ls -lh /boot/

And yes, [device] is meant symbolic e.g. #fsck /dev/sda1
This check can be made from a live CD, the device needs to be unmounted. All of the options can be found in the manual via terminal #man fsck.ext3

Quote:menu.1st
This is not a number, it is a small 'L' like lamp, listen, laughing

Revision history for this message
jdfilburn (jdfilburn) said : 		#8

Thank you. Yes, I was able to boot normal to the desktop. (finally!)
________________________________________________
#du -sh /lib/modules/* revealed the following:

72M /lib/modules/2.6.24-16-generic
71M /lib/modules/2.6.24-17-generic
73M /lib/modules/2.6.24-18-generic
110M /lib/modules/2.6.24-19-generic
_________________________________________________
and #ls -lh /boot/ revealed the following:

total 71M
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 413K 2008-04-10 12:51 abi-2.6.24-16-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 413K 2008-05-01 13:59 abi-2.6.24-17-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 413K 2008-05-28 22:39 abi-2.6.24-18-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 413K 2008-06-18 14:11 abi-2.6.24-19-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 79K 2008-04-10 12:51 config-2.6.24-16-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 79K 2008-05-01 13:59 config-2.6.24-17-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 79K 2008-05-28 22:39 config-2.6.24-18-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 79K 2008-06-18 14:11 config-2.6.24-19-generic
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4.0K 2008-06-24 09:17 grub
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7.6M 2008-06-01 21:35 initrd.img-2.6.24-16-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7.1M 2008-04-22 14:00 initrd.img-2.6.24-16-generic.bak
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7.2M 2008-06-02 01:53 initrd.img-2.6.24-17-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7.2M 2008-06-02 01:52 initrd.img-2.6.24-17-generic.bak
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7.2M 2008-06-14 21:27 initrd.img-2.6.24-18-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7.2M 2008-06-04 00:02 initrd.img-2.6.24-18-generic.bak
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7.2M 2008-06-24 09:17 initrd.img-2.6.24-19-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7.2M 2008-06-24 09:17 initrd.img-2.6.24-19-generic.bak
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 101K 2007-09-28 06:06 memtest86+.bin
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 879K 2008-04-10 12:51 System.map-2.6.24-16-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 884K 2008-05-01 13:59 System.map-2.6.24-17-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 884K 2008-05-28 22:39 System.map-2.6.24-18-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 884K 2008-06-18 14:11 System.map-2.6.24-19-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1.9M 2008-04-10 12:51 vmlinuz-2.6.24-16-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1.9M 2008-05-01 13:59 vmlinuz-2.6.24-17-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1.9M 2008-05-28 22:39 vmlinuz-2.6.24-18-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1.9M 2008-06-18 14:11 vmlinuz-2.6.24-19-generic
__________________________________________________

Do these outputs reveal anything meaningful to you?

Thank you for the menu.lst clarification. I was able to make the edits recommended above.

If you believe I still need to perform a fsck with unmounting, live CDs, etc., let me know. Please provide or direct me to clear instructions. This is a new field for me.

Again, your help is appreciated.

Revision history for this message
Sam_ (and-sam) said : 		#9

Hi,
thanks for the information.
First of all, after editing the menu.lst you should type in the terminal #sudo update-grub, to keep the edited version.

Second, I'd suggest to remove Kernel images 2.6.24-16 and 2.6.24-17, assuming you boot with 2.6.24-19, to prevent the system from loading a lot of different Kernel images and eventually getting unstable.
Therefore 2.6.24-18 and 2.6.24-19 should be kept.
You don't have to edit the menu.lst for this procedure.
If you are using GNOME there is Synaptic doing this work for you. (prenotify I'm not familiar with kde, sorry)

In Synaptic should be buttons on the lower left corner, one named status, there you can find e.g. can automatically beeing removed and local obsolet.
You should find the Kernel images 2.6.24-16 and -17, with a right click these can be removed completely. The question to mark additional dependencies related to the Kernel which should be removed can be answered positive.
After you applied Synaptic will remove the choosen Kernel images and reconfigure the menu.lst automatically, this can be viewed in the popup window under details.

Next step to clean up the system can also be done with Synaptic in menu -> settings preferences, there should be a flag files or packages (I'm running german spelled system) where all packages in the temporary storage can be removed with one click. Finally reload the packages list within the main window.
btw. there are commands for the terminal to achieve this also, but I guess for the moment you prefer these steps.

After all, if your system has no freezes anymore that should be it and we could skip diving deeper.
Nevertheless there is a variety of manuals to get to know the system better every day, like the >man< command in the terminal.
As mentioned the system should make an auto fsck about every 30 boots, but if you like to make a >fsck<, please be more patient the next time, because it can take upon a couple of hours.
Anyway, please ask any time again and provide the steps you have made, thanks.

Revision history for this message
jdfilburn (jdfilburn) said : 		#10

You have all been very patient with me and very helpful. I followed the directions you provided. Hopefully the system will be more stable in the future.

I will monitor the system and report back to you if I note any problems.

As for the fsck, I could never run it, since I didn't know how to unmount the filesystem from the Live CD. If you believe that is still an important task, I will need more guidance or pointed to a beginner's level resource.

Thank you again for your valuable time.

Revision history for this message
marcobra (Marco Braida) (marcobra) said : 		#11

Using live cd simply open a terminal and type:

sudo mount

to get mounted file system infos

below an example (a row) returned from mount command:
/dev/sdc1 on /media/disk type vfat (rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=hal,shortname=mixed,uid=1000,utf8,umask=077,flush)

Then if i want to "umount" the vfat partiton i must type:

sudo umount /media/disk

Hope this helps

Revision history for this message
jdfilburn (jdfilburn) said : 		#12

Sorry to prolong this post, but the symptoms I listed in my opening post are as bad as ever. I'm at my wits end with this PC. My wife reports that she can barely get through a few emails before the system freezes on her. I am reluctant to purchase a new pc, (where would I turn, anyway - a Mac?) but unless there is vast, noticeable improvement, I may be forced to soon.

Bottom line is I need to continue this troubleshooting. I can glimpse some error messages at the beginning of a boot sequence, but I can't find them to post here. I worry about the ATI x600 drivers being the culprit, or perhaps an overheating event? We are definitely not pushing the limits on this system with the simple use of Yahoo! Mail.

Thank you for your time.

Revision history for this message
Sam_ (and-sam) said : 		#13

Hi again,
before suspecting there is a need for error messages.
After login search the logs in /var/logs or in system administration -> system logs for error messages, e.g. kern.log, syslog and Xorg.0.log. Tracking it's a system freeze or Xserver freeze, try to provide what exactly is freezing when doing what.

To check system specifications via GUI install with Synaptic "hardinfo". For example in the section "sensors" you can watch the temperature.
Please follow "debugging system crashes".
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DebuggingSystemCrash
an overview is here
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures
Further you may install "smartmontools" (also with Synaptic)
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Smartmontools
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6983

I have to admit my suspect is still the hardware, therefore a Mem test should be done, assuming you've removed by now obsolete kernels.
How old is this Sony VAIO RA-910G, since I couldn't find anything in the web, not to speak of compatibillity for linux.

To complete the coverage (regarding X600, which driver?)
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupportComponentsVideoCardsAti
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati/+bug/195051

Revision history for this message
jdfilburn (jdfilburn) said : 		#14

Sorry about the computer model, I stated it incorrectly. I have this:

http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/sony-vaio-digital-studio/4505-3118_7-30923411.html
a Sony Vaio VGC-RA910G

Had difficulty finding a boot log within Synaptic. Nothing there jumped out at me. As for the mem test, I get an Error 21. The one I ran some time ago was fine.

What about this idea? Hardy might not be freezing - it could be that my computer keeps dropping or losing the USB ports. Since my mouse and keyboard are both USB, they simply stop working, giving me the impression that things have "frozen."

How do I troubleshoot the USBs?

As for the display, I feel better that I am not alone. I will continue to seek out a solution for that.

Thank you for your time. Looking forward to your input about isolating the problem to USB ports, and then what to do about it.

Revision history for this message
Sam_ (and-sam) said : 		#15

Hi again and thanks for the information about mouse and keyboard.
Please check out the section hardware, which is in the overview I've pasted above -> link "Debbuging Procedures" and just follow the instructions there, e.g. for the mouse
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingMouseDetection#General%20information

Synaptic is a package manager and not containing system log files.
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticHowto

System log files are in /var/log as text files, e.g. above, the path can be found within the file browser Nautilus or viewed in a graphical interface from the main menu on the panel -> system -> system administration.
btw. to get general information like this there is also a help documentation about usage in the main menu -> system and not to forget the useful online documentation
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxLogFiles
and this is Gnome desktop user guide
http://library.gnome.org/users/user-guide/stable/index.html.en

About Grub error 21
http://users.bigpond.net.au/hermanzone/p15.htm#21

I couldn't find your Vaio listed in certain lists for compatibillity with linux, but this isn't a final determination, it might just not have been listed from others they use this comp. In my view though there shouldn't be any problems with it.

Sure you're never alone within a community which follows the impact of "Ubuntu".
https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/about-ubuntu/C/about-ubuntu-name.html
http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct

Revision history for this message
jdfilburn (jdfilburn) said : 		#16

Thank you for all of your help. For any future readers who are reading this thread, I hope this summary is helpful.
The problem may have been a failing video card. Despite downloading and enabling both proprietary and open source video drivers for my ATI x600, the near constant 'freezing' of the Hardy OS never stopped.
I was only a day or two away from purchasing a new system when I took what I thought at the time to be a gamble: I spent additional money on a new video card. With a new nVidia 8500GS installed AND the removal of a TV tuner card (factory-installed Sony), the system came to life and hasn't frozen once in 4 days.
Additionally, the assistance I received from this community was excellent. Thanks again!