Feedback on the Dell Precision 7720 - Crane 17

Hello,

Thanks for the feedback, for our certification website [1][2], there is already a note for pre-installed systems.
Do you think that is enough?

Also, a good news for you,
I found Dell did provide an Ubuntu recovery image on their website [1] (normally you will find this for Precision / XPS laptops), not sure why their customer support does not aware of it. Would you mind letting us know where do you live?

Last but not least, apart from the aforementioned image, please feel free to give the standard Ubuntu 18.04.1 a try. If anything is not working, you can open a bug report with command "ubuntu-bug linux" in a terminal (ctrl + alt +t)

Regards

[1] https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201611-25213/
[2] https://certification.ubuntu.com/hardware/201611-25214/
[3] https://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/04/product-support/product/precision-17-7720-laptop/drivers

I live in the US.

No, the pre-install is not enough. I just finished a 15 minute conversation with Dell corporate. They're entirely unwilling to sell Ubuntu to me, and/or provide the recovery image. I was informed that the **entire** Precision line of laptops will not support Redhat or Ubuntu for the foreseeable future.

The certification is now a lie, and wholly inaccurate. You cannot obtain the recovery image, which has Ubuntu w/ Dell proprietary Linux drivers, kernel parameters, and extra configurations. You also cannot install standard Ubuntu. I've already spent at least 12 hours installing it, messing with BIOS settings, window managers, etc. It's extremely unstable, crashes at every single restart after initial installation, and crashes within 30 seconds of the window manager being loaded. In addition to not supporting all of the hardware. There are ZERO drivers available on Dell's support site, just the recovery image (that ostensibly has them within it).

It's not just this certification page. You need to change ALL certification pages for Dell Mobile Precisions. They've removed the recovery images from download, and informed me that use of the recovery image will void any hardware warranties. It's extremely intellectually and morally offensive behavior from Dell, and not in line with open source values.

Furthermore, certification should mean that a STANDARD installation of Ubuntu will work on the device. You can list out the prerequisites and drivers, but every one of them should be freely available and **published** if you will.

You've certified hardware that has no published drivers, howtos, nothing. With all due respect, it defeats the purpose of certification, and we've been led astray having lost thousands of dollars on hardware now worthless because it can only run Microsoft.

Do you see any issue on standard Ubuntu installation?
Other than Nvidia driver everything should work out of the box on 18.04 daily image.

@eepstein,

Precision 7720 - Crane 17 is a complicated hardware design system.
Could you please help check if following setting in system BIOS is set as below?
Video -> Switchable Graphics
- Enable Switchable Graphics: Enabled
- Enable Dock Display Port: Enabled
- Graphics Spec Mode: Disabled

System-Configuration -> SATA Operation
- Select AHCI mode

Secure Boot -> Secure Boot Enable
- Select Disabled

I have tested, with above setting, the Ubuntu 18.04 could be installed correctly and boot to desktop.

Thank you gentlemen for your assistance.

@kaihengfeng - During the restart portion of installation, it would often hang. Waiting 10 minutes sometimes allowed it to restart. After restarting and booting to desktop, it would immediately hang when trying to run anything. This was after clicking activities and choosing a program. The icons themselves attempted to "animate" and then dissappear, but that animation itself crashed halfway through leaving slightly transparent icons on the desktop.

@kent-jclin - I did attempt those settings, and booting to the desktop wasn't a problem. It was hanging during restart after installation, and hangs after about 30 seconds on the desktop, or after attempting to run any program.

I guess the system is with Nvidia graphics card?
If so, please add kernel parameter "nouveau.modeset=0" before installation.
After boot to installed Desktop, install proprietary Nvidia driver via command `sudo ubuntu-drivers autoinstall`.

@kai-hengfeng

I could try that in about a month. We've already written the system off, and unfortunately the owner has no choice but to run Windows 10. Which basically means our project is #*#$&$^&.

Your suggestion was more or less tried in CentOS 7, which did install on the unit without much issue at all. There are some problems with stuttering video playback in VLC, but the NVidia driver did not help with this.

I'll try side loading Ubuntu again in a month or so, and give it some extra work, but I still highly resent the certification page. You're certifying drivers, kernel parameters, and other configuration settings that are hidden by a profit driven megacorp.

> I could try that in about a month. We've already written the system off, and unfortunately the owner has no choice but to run Windows 10. Which basically means our project is #*#$&$^&.

Sorry to hear about that. Maybe this can be improved from our installer?

> Your suggestion was more or less tried in CentOS 7, which did install on the unit without much issue at all. There are some problems with stuttering video playback in VLC, but the NVidia driver did not help with this.

Yea... this needs on VAAPI/VDPAU, and player backend that supports those APIs. I think VLC supports them but maybe it's not enabled by default.

> I'll try side loading Ubuntu again in a month or so, and give it some extra work, but I still highly resent the certification page. You're certifying drivers, kernel parameters, and other configuration settings that are hidden by a profit driven megacorp.

The certification is for "Ubuntu preloaded" machines, but you can also download the recovery image from Dell website - it's Ubuntu 16.04 though.

In general, if the system does _not_ use Nvidia graphics, everything should work out of the box.

We constantly backports necessary bits from upstream kernel to Ubuntu's kernel to benefit latest OEM systems.
The daily image [1] has latest release kernel, which has better hardware support. This may help when the default live image doesn't work.

[1] http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/bionic/daily-live/current/

@kaihengfeng

> The certification is for "Ubuntu preloaded" machines, but you can also download the recovery image from Dell website - it's Ubuntu 16.04 though.

This isn't true, and is core to the reason I'm asking certification to be removed. I had a lengthy conversation with Dell Corporate after I threatened to sue them when speaking to a supervisor in the Precision support department. You require a service tag to download the recovery image, and that service tag MUST reference a system that was bundled with Ubuntu to begin with. If it was bundled with Windows 10, you're not allowed to download the recovery image, nor are you allowed to even run Ubuntu without voiding the warranty. Which is intellectually offensive since it was ostensibly certified. THAT's vendor lock-in at it's most arrogant and harmful. Ubuntu as a community shouldn't condone of put up with that.

Can you provide me with the recovery image? It doesn't really matter that it is 16.04. I'm fairly confident that could be upgraded in place correct? I upgraded my 17.04 to 18.04 without a full reinstall, and my machine is operating well.

Again, please remove the certification. I don't believe Ubuntu works out of the box on this equipment, and not nearly as well as is required to receive certification. Certification should only be offered to equipment where the Linux drivers are freely available, along with technical information regarding their installation and use. AGAIN, Dell LOCKS THIS UP SO THAT YOU CANNOT DOWNLOAD THE RECOVERY IMAGE OR OBTAIN DRIVERS.

That's why I'm so doggedly persistent right now with you, your colleagues, the Ubuntu Community Council, the bug reporting system, and the Attorney General for the State of Nevada.

We got really hosed to the tune of thousands of dollars because of THIS certification page. It didn't tell the full truth, and that Ubuntu recovery image is held hostage by Dell's policies.

Sorry, I didn't click the "Download" before making my statement. It does require service tag. This is quite surprising, this doesn't require service tag a while back.

More than that, the file name is "Precision_7730&7530_Ubuntu16.04_Recovry_Image.iso", seems to be wrong for 7720.

I also found recovery image is missing for lots of systems, even when the drop down menu does have Ubuntu listed.

I don't know the answer for the certification situation. I'll leave that to other folks.

@eepstein,

I could not reproduce the issue you encounter on the 7720 machine that Dell provide to us. I installed stock 18.04 image in following BIOS configuration. After boot to desktop, I also installed NV driver through Ubuntu I have used it around 3 hours and do not spot any system hang.

BIOS version: 1.6.0
Video -> Switchable Graphics
- Enable Switchable Graphics: Enabled
- Enable Dock Display Port: Enabled
- Graphics Spec Mode: Disabled
System-Configuration -> SATA Operation
- Select AHCI mode
Secure Boot -> Secure Boot Enable
- Select Disabled

Could you please provide lspci -vnn and lspci usb of your system? So I could compare the system difference between yours and the machine in our hand.

@kent-jclin

I definitely don't have the same experience as you. Our machine would hang when resetting during installation. Booting to the desktop would happen, followed by immediate system hangs. Also pretty sure we don't have the same BIOS version as you. I updated it to the latest BIOS the moment I got it.

We already gave up and wrote the system off as a fucking doorstop. Sometime in March I will be visiting my friend again, and will attempt to side load with the settings you recommended, using stock Ubuntu available for downloads.

However, I still don't believe it deserves certification, and it certainly needs to be updated to reflect that Dell offers zero support for Linux on the entire Precision line now, and that by simply installing Ubuntu, your on-site hardware warranty is void.

Pre-installs do NOT deserve certification, especially when Dell refuses to publicly release the recovery image, or even discuss their drivers and settings.

This question was expired because it remained in the 'Open' state without activity for the last 15 days.