How on-shell Z events are generated or marked?

Asked by Shux Li

Dear MadGraph experts:

I'm studying the process e- e- > e- e- z and considering z > e+ e-
decay. After generating e- e- > e- e- e- e+ events, I notice that in lhe
file there are some events having a intermediate Z in the final state. I
wonder if these are "on-shell Z events", since when I subtract them from
total, I get cross section matched with cross section from syntax
e- e- > e- e- e- e+ $ z (differ by 0.5%). Then my question are:

1. How an event be identified as an on-shell Z event? Should this be
    based on the invariant mass of the electron-positron pair? Then I
    noticed that some e+ e- fall within mass windows of Z but didn't
    have a intermediate Z. And also we have 3 possible pair of e+ e-,
    which one should be considered? Or these intermediate Z are derived
    from more complicate techniques?

2. Should these on-shell Z events be consistent with
    e- e- > e- e- z, z > e+ e-? They differ about 2% at cross section as I test (with 1m
    events). I see in @Olivier's MadGraph tutorial (P12 from
    https://cp3.irmp.ucl.ac.be/projects/madgraph/raw-attachment/wiki/MC4BSM2017/17_05_11_tuto_mc4bsm.pdf)
    that

      The Physical distribution is (very close to) exact sum of the two
      other one.

    For p p > e+ e-, p p > z, z > e+ e- and p p > e+ e- $ z. Can a 2%
    difference in my case be considered "very close"?

Thanks for your help in advance!

Best,
Shux Li

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Olivier Mattelaer
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Olivier Mattelaer (olivier-mattelaer) said :
#1

1. They are two criteria:
 - First the relative importance of each diagram. Allowing to select one given Feynman diagram.
 - If that diagram has a Z and if that Z is in the onshell window then it will be written.
Now if you want to have more details on the exact algo, you can read this question: https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/819446

2. Maybe I do not know enough that process to answer such question. But given that the width divided by the mass is also around 2 % this sounds reasonable.

Cheers,

Olivier

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Shux Li (tuition6976) said :
#2

Dear Olivier:

Thanks for your reply. I apologize for not realizing that my colleague
had asked a similar question. After discussing with him, I still have
some confuses:

1. About the sampling
    I read the MadEvent paper about SDE strategy, which mentions a
    g_(i)(Φ) density function. Should the Breit-Wigner distribution be
    considered a specific choice of g_(i)(Φ)? As you specified:

      determine if the events needs to written on disk or not
      (unweighting stage is based on the maximum of the integrand
      –including the multi-channel factor)

    Are you referring to use the acceptance-rejection method to sample
    unweighted events?

2. About the multi-channel factor
    Is this factor introduced solely for the accurate evaluation of
    phase-space integration? Then Z inside mass windows in Z channel is
    just defined as on-shell Z and we can hardly reconstruct same Z with
    only final state leptons?

3. Compared with other on-shell Z contributions from
    1. on-shell Z events + MadSpin
    2. decay chain syntax in MadGraph
    are those Z events more physical or more acceptable?

Best,
Shux Li

Revision history for this message
Olivier Mattelaer (olivier-mattelaer) said :
#3

Hi,

1. Are you referring to use the acceptance-rejection method to sample
    unweighted events?

Yes

2. About the multi-channel factor
    Is this factor introduced solely for the accurate evaluation of
    phase-space integration?

Can not really comment on the intent of the author of that paper.

3. Then Z inside mass windows in Z channel is
    just defined as on-shell Z and we can hardly reconstruct same Z with
    only final state leptons?

This clearly gives a "simple" way to decide how to write propagator. But nothing prevent you to have different methods.
(potentially better one)

3. Compared with other on-shell Z contributions from
    1. on-shell Z events + MadSpin
    2. decay chain syntax in MadGraph
    are those Z events more physical or more acceptable?

Those are really similar, the only difference is the total cross-section which is better in two compare than the one from one, since MadSpin use branching ration while "2" does phase-space integration.

Cheers,

Olivier

Revision history for this message
Shux Li (tuition6976) said :
#4

Hi Oliver:

Thank you for patient reply. How e+ e- $ z events are generated?
Compared with directly remove Z events from e+ e- events (with same
iseed, and 1m total events), they differ by 0.05%. But in my case
it's 0.5%.

Best,
Shux Li

Revision history for this message
Olivier Mattelaer (olivier-mattelaer) said :
#5

This is conceptually the opposite operation,
For any events where we would have written the Z, we change the weight of such event to 0 (which prevent the cross-section to take such event into account and to write such event on disk)

Cheers,

Olivier

Revision history for this message
Shux Li (tuition6976) said :
#6

So they can differ even with same random seed? I mean I can see exactly same
events (without Z) in e+ e- and e+ e- $ z events, but still some events only
present in either. So are there some unweighting or other procedures to prevent
their exactly match?

Revision history for this message
Best Olivier Mattelaer (olivier-mattelaer) said :
#7

They are no way (even with the exact same seed) that you would get a single shared event between the two syntax.

In principle at the first iteration, the photon channel will probe the exact same event with both syntax. But since the full amplitude is not the same with the two syntax, the machine learning layer will change the grid for the photon channel way in a different way making all the events different for the two syntax for the second iteration.

Since no event will be passed to the un-weighting before the third iteration, any change to find the same event, is zero.

Cheers,

Olivier

Revision history for this message
Shux Li (tuition6976) said :
#8

Thank you so much for your answer! It helps me a lot!

Revision history for this message
Shux Li (tuition6976) said :
#9

Thanks Olivier Mattelaer, that solved my question.