HAHM_ggf_ZZd_4l event generation poses lower limit on the regular Z mass (~55GeV) without clear reasons

Hi,

What is the mass of h?

Your syntax enforces the "h" to be onshell as well as "Z" and "Zp"
if "h" and "Z" are standard model particles then you have indeed a constraint on the Zp mass to
be less then 125-90= 35 GeV

For mass higher than 35 GeV, you can not use narrow width approximation and the above syntax is not a good one to use (does not mean that the result is wrong per se, result at 55 might not be bad).
You might be safe by the "onshell" definition that we use in MG5aMC (default is pole mass plus minus 15 times the width).

The issue when Narrow width approximation is not valid anymore is how to have a gauge invariant set of diagrams.
Maybe one solution is to do
generate p p > h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l-
But you need to validate it obviously (and run check p p > h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l- to see if you have issue or not)

Cheers,

Olivier

> On 15 Sep 2020, at 20:11, Jingjing Pan <email address hidden> wrote:
>
> New question #692927 on MadGraph5_aMC@NLO:
> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927
>
> Hi there,
>
> Hope that everything has been going well so far.
>
> We work on searching for dark Z bosons in the gg->H->ZZd->4l processes, which has been completed for the mZd range 15~55 GeV and we wish now to extend that to 65~105 GeV.
>
> We first tried setting mZd = 65 and 70 GeV, but found that, based on the invariant mass plots of m12 (not sure if I could add graphs), the mass range for the regular Z boson seemed to be sharply limited to be greater than ~55 GeV, so that we were unable to run the generation for mZd > 70 GeV.
>
> Was wondering could you please give any suggestions in that regard? And insights will be greatly appreciated!
>
> Best,
> Jing
>
> PS: The job option file we used is as following (trial for mZd=75 GeV), just in case it may be needed:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> mzd = 75
> evgenConfig.description="MadGraph Hidden Abelian Higgs Model (HAHM): gg -> H -> ZZd -> 4l (l=e,mu) , with mZd=75GeV"
> proc_card = """
> import model HAHM_variableMW_v3_UFO
> define l+ = e+ mu+
> define l- = e- mu-
> generate g g > h HIG=1 HIW=0 QED=0 QCD=0, (h > Z Zp, Z > l+ l-, Zp > l+ l-)"""
>
> proc_name = "HAHM_ggf_ZZd_4l_mZd75"
>
> param_card_extras = { "HIDDEN": { 'epsilon': '1e-4', #kinetic mixing parameter
> 'kap': '1e-10', #higgs mixing parameter
> 'mzdinput': mzd, #Zd mass
> 'mhsinput':'200.0' }, #dark higgs mass
> "HIGGS": { 'mhinput':'125.0'}, #higgs mass
> "DECAY": { 'wzp':'Auto', 'wh':'Auto', 'wt':'Auto' } #auto-calculate decay widths and BR of Zp, H, t
> }
>
> run_card_extras = { 'lhe_version':'2.0',
> 'cut_decays':'F',
> 'ptj':'0',
> 'ptb':'0',
> 'pta':'0',
> 'ptl':'0',
> 'etaj':'-1',
> 'etab':'-1',
> 'etaa':'-1',
> 'etal':'-1',
> 'drjj':'0',
> 'drbb':'0',
> 'drll':'0',
> 'draa':'0',
> 'drbj':'0',
> 'draj':'0',
> 'drjl':'0',
> 'drab':'0',
> 'drbl':'0',
> 'dral':'0' }
>
> evgenConfig.keywords+=['exotic','BSMHiggs']
> evgenConfig.contact = ['<email address hidden>']
> evgenConfig.process = "HAHM_H_ZZd_4l"
>
> include("MC15JobOptions/MadGraphControl_Pythia8_A14_NNPDF23LO_EvtGen_Common.py")
>
>
> --
> You received this question notification because you are an answer
> contact for MadGraph5_aMC@NLO.

Hi Olivier,

Thanks so much for your really prompt reply.

Yes, mh is set to be 125 GeV. And the cut at ~55 GeV now indeed makes more sense to us.

One quick question just to verify that you meant to suggest "p p > h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l-", as opposed to "g g > ...", since the original JO was using gluon-gluon fusion and some syntax like

generate g g > h HIG=1 HIW=0 QED=0 QCD=0, (h > Z Zp, Z > l+ l-, Zp > l+ l-)

Many thanks again,
Jing

Hi Olivier,

Thanks so much for your really prompt reply.

Yes, mh is set to be 125 GeV. And the cut at ~55 GeV now indeed makes
more sense to us.

One quick question just to verify that you meant to suggest "p p > h Z Zp >
l+ l- l+ l-", as opposed to "g g", since the original JO was using
gluon-gluon fusion and some syntax like generate g g > h HIG=1 HIW=0 QED=0
QCD=0, (h > Z Zp, Z > l+ l-, Zp > l+ l-)?

Many thanks again,
Jing

On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 2:41 PM Olivier Mattelaer <
<email address hidden>> wrote:

> Your question #692927 on MadGraph5_aMC@NLO changed:
> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927
>
> Status: Open => Answered
>
> Olivier Mattelaer proposed the following answer:
> Hi,
>
> What is the mass of h?
>
> Your syntax enforces the "h" to be onshell as well as "Z" and "Zp"
> if "h" and "Z" are standard model particles then you have indeed a
> constraint on the Zp mass to
> be less then 125-90= 35 GeV
>
> For mass higher than 35 GeV, you can not use narrow width approximation
> and the above syntax is not a good one to use (does not mean that the
> result is wrong per se, result at 55 might not be bad).
> You might be safe by the "onshell" definition that we use in MG5aMC
> (default is pole mass plus minus 15 times the width).
>
> The issue when Narrow width approximation is not valid anymore is how to
> have a gauge invariant set of diagrams.
> Maybe one solution is to do
> generate p p > h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l-
> But you need to validate it obviously (and run check p p > h Z Zp > l+ l-
> l+ l- to see if you have issue or not)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Olivier
>
>
> > On 15 Sep 2020, at 20:11, Jingjing Pan <
> <email address hidden>> wrote:
> >
> > New question #692927 on MadGraph5_aMC@NLO:
> > https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927
> >
> > Hi there,
> >
> > Hope that everything has been going well so far.
> >
> > We work on searching for dark Z bosons in the gg->H->ZZd->4l processes,
> which has been completed for the mZd range 15~55 GeV and we wish now to
> extend that to 65~105 GeV.
> >
> > We first tried setting mZd = 65 and 70 GeV, but found that, based on the
> invariant mass plots of m12 (not sure if I could add graphs), the mass
> range for the regular Z boson seemed to be sharply limited to be greater
> than ~55 GeV, so that we were unable to run the generation for mZd > 70 GeV.
> >
> > Was wondering could you please give any suggestions in that regard? And
> insights will be greatly appreciated!
> >
> > Best,
> > Jing
> >
> > PS: The job option file we used is as following (trial for mZd=75 GeV),
> just in case it may be needed:
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > mzd = 75
> > evgenConfig.description="MadGraph Hidden Abelian Higgs Model (HAHM): gg
> -> H -> ZZd -> 4l (l=e,mu) , with mZd=75GeV"
> > proc_card = """
> > import model HAHM_variableMW_v3_UFO
> > define l+ = e+ mu+
> > define l- = e- mu-
> > generate g g > h HIG=1 HIW=0 QED=0 QCD=0, (h > Z Zp, Z > l+ l-, Zp > l+
> l-)"""
> >
> > proc_name = "HAHM_ggf_ZZd_4l_mZd75"
> >
> > param_card_extras = { "HIDDEN": { 'epsilon': '1e-4', #kinetic mixing
> parameter
> > 'kap': '1e-10', #higgs mixing parameter
> > 'mzdinput': mzd, #Zd mass
> > 'mhsinput':'200.0' }, #dark higgs mass
> > "HIGGS": { 'mhinput':'125.0'}, #higgs mass
> > "DECAY": { 'wzp':'Auto', 'wh':'Auto', 'wt':'Auto' }
> #auto-calculate decay widths and BR of Zp, H, t
> > }
> >
> > run_card_extras = { 'lhe_version':'2.0',
> > 'cut_decays':'F',
> > 'ptj':'0',
> > 'ptb':'0',
> > 'pta':'0',
> > 'ptl':'0',
> > 'etaj':'-1',
> > 'etab':'-1',
> > 'etaa':'-1',
> > 'etal':'-1',
> > 'drjj':'0',
> > 'drbb':'0',
> > 'drll':'0',
> > 'draa':'0',
> > 'drbj':'0',
> > 'draj':'0',
> > 'drjl':'0',
> > 'drab':'0',
> > 'drbl':'0',
> > 'dral':'0' }
> >
> > evgenConfig.keywords+=['exotic','BSMHiggs']
> > evgenConfig.contact = ['<email address hidden>']
> > evgenConfig.process = "HAHM_H_ZZd_4l"
> >
> >
> include("MC15JobOptions/MadGraphControl_Pythia8_A14_NNPDF23LO_EvtGen_Common.py")
> >
> >
> > --
> > You received this question notification because you are an answer
> > contact for MadGraph5_aMC@NLO.
>
> --
> If this answers your question, please go to the following page to let us
> know that it is solved:
>
> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927/+confirm?answer_id=0
>
> If you still need help, you can reply to this email or go to the
> following page to enter your feedback:
> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927
>
> You received this question notification because you asked the question.
>

No sorry the initial state can stay as "g g", I just did not notice it.

Cheers,

Olivier

> On 15 Sep 2020, at 21:10, Jingjing Pan <email address hidden> wrote:
>
> Question #692927 on MadGraph5_aMC@NLO changed:
> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927
>
> Status: Answered => Open
>
> Jingjing Pan is still having a problem:
> Hi Olivier,
>
> Thanks so much for your really prompt reply.
>
> Yes, mh is set to be 125 GeV. And the cut at ~55 GeV now indeed makes
> more sense to us.
>
> One quick question just to verify that you meant to suggest "p p > h Z Zp >
> l+ l- l+ l-", as opposed to "g g", since the original JO was using
> gluon-gluon fusion and some syntax like generate g g > h HIG=1 HIW=0 QED=0
> QCD=0, (h > Z Zp, Z > l+ l-, Zp > l+ l-)?
>
> Many thanks again,
> Jing
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 2:41 PM Olivier Mattelaer <
> <email address hidden>> wrote:
>
>> Your question #692927 on MadGraph5_aMC@NLO changed:
>> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927
>>
>> Status: Open => Answered
>>
>> Olivier Mattelaer proposed the following answer:
>> Hi,
>>
>> What is the mass of h?
>>
>> Your syntax enforces the "h" to be onshell as well as "Z" and "Zp"
>> if "h" and "Z" are standard model particles then you have indeed a
>> constraint on the Zp mass to
>> be less then 125-90= 35 GeV
>>
>> For mass higher than 35 GeV, you can not use narrow width approximation
>> and the above syntax is not a good one to use (does not mean that the
>> result is wrong per se, result at 55 might not be bad).
>> You might be safe by the "onshell" definition that we use in MG5aMC
>> (default is pole mass plus minus 15 times the width).
>>
>> The issue when Narrow width approximation is not valid anymore is how to
>> have a gauge invariant set of diagrams.
>> Maybe one solution is to do
>> generate p p > h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l-
>> But you need to validate it obviously (and run check p p > h Z Zp > l+ l-
>> l+ l- to see if you have issue or not)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Olivier
>>
>>
>>> On 15 Sep 2020, at 20:11, Jingjing Pan <
>> <email address hidden>> wrote:
>>>
>>> New question #692927 on MadGraph5_aMC@NLO:
>>> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927
>>>
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> Hope that everything has been going well so far.
>>>
>>> We work on searching for dark Z bosons in the gg->H->ZZd->4l processes,
>> which has been completed for the mZd range 15~55 GeV and we wish now to
>> extend that to 65~105 GeV.
>>>
>>> We first tried setting mZd = 65 and 70 GeV, but found that, based on the
>> invariant mass plots of m12 (not sure if I could add graphs), the mass
>> range for the regular Z boson seemed to be sharply limited to be greater
>> than ~55 GeV, so that we were unable to run the generation for mZd > 70 GeV.
>>>
>>> Was wondering could you please give any suggestions in that regard? And
>> insights will be greatly appreciated!
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Jing
>>>
>>> PS: The job option file we used is as following (trial for mZd=75 GeV),
>> just in case it may be needed:
>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> mzd = 75
>>> evgenConfig.description="MadGraph Hidden Abelian Higgs Model (HAHM): gg
>> -> H -> ZZd -> 4l (l=e,mu) , with mZd=75GeV"
>>> proc_card = """
>>> import model HAHM_variableMW_v3_UFO
>>> define l+ = e+ mu+
>>> define l- = e- mu-
>>> generate g g > h HIG=1 HIW=0 QED=0 QCD=0, (h > Z Zp, Z > l+ l-, Zp > l+
>> l-)"""
>>>
>>> proc_name = "HAHM_ggf_ZZd_4l_mZd75"
>>>
>>> param_card_extras = { "HIDDEN": { 'epsilon': '1e-4', #kinetic mixing
>> parameter
>>> 'kap': '1e-10', #higgs mixing parameter
>>> 'mzdinput': mzd, #Zd mass
>>> 'mhsinput':'200.0' }, #dark higgs mass
>>> "HIGGS": { 'mhinput':'125.0'}, #higgs mass
>>> "DECAY": { 'wzp':'Auto', 'wh':'Auto', 'wt':'Auto' }
>> #auto-calculate decay widths and BR of Zp, H, t
>>> }
>>>
>>> run_card_extras = { 'lhe_version':'2.0',
>>> 'cut_decays':'F',
>>> 'ptj':'0',
>>> 'ptb':'0',
>>> 'pta':'0',
>>> 'ptl':'0',
>>> 'etaj':'-1',
>>> 'etab':'-1',
>>> 'etaa':'-1',
>>> 'etal':'-1',
>>> 'drjj':'0',
>>> 'drbb':'0',
>>> 'drll':'0',
>>> 'draa':'0',
>>> 'drbj':'0',
>>> 'draj':'0',
>>> 'drjl':'0',
>>> 'drab':'0',
>>> 'drbl':'0',
>>> 'dral':'0' }
>>>
>>> evgenConfig.keywords+=['exotic','BSMHiggs']
>>> evgenConfig.contact = ['<email address hidden>']
>>> evgenConfig.process = "HAHM_H_ZZd_4l"
>>>
>>>
>> include("MC15JobOptions/MadGraphControl_Pythia8_A14_NNPDF23LO_EvtGen_Common.py")
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this question notification because you are an answer
>>> contact for MadGraph5_aMC@NLO.
>>
>> --
>> If this answers your question, please go to the following page to let us
>> know that it is solved:
>>
>> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927/+confirm?answer_id=0
>>
>> If you still need help, you can reply to this email or go to the
>> following page to enter your feedback:
>> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927
>>
>> You received this question notification because you asked the question.
>>
>
> --
> You received this question notification because you are an answer
> contact for MadGraph5_aMC@NLO.

Hi Olivier,

Thanks so much again and just wanted to follow up --

Just tried "g g >h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l-" while received the following error message:

generate 15:42:32 generate generate g g > h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l-
generate 15:42:32 Command "import /gpfs/loomis/project/baker/jp2555/MCgenHigh/proc_card_mg5.dat" interrupted in sub-command:
generate 15:42:32 "generate generate p p > h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l-" with error:
generate 15:42:32 InvalidCmd : No particle generate in model

Was wondering if you have any suggestions in that regard..

Many thanks,
Jingjing

You wrote "generate" twice:
> generate 15:42:32 generate generate g g > h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l-

Cheers,

Olivier

> On 15 Sep 2020, at 21:50, Jingjing Pan <email address hidden> wrote:
>
> Question #692927 on MadGraph5_aMC@NLO changed:
> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927
>
> Jingjing Pan posted a new comment:
> Hi Olivier,
>
> Thanks so much again and just wanted to follow up --
>
> Just tried "g g >h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l-" while received the following
> error message:
>
> generate 15:42:32 generate generate g g > h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l-
> generate 15:42:32 Command "import /gpfs/loomis/project/baker/jp2555/MCgenHigh/proc_card_mg5.dat" interrupted in sub-command:
> generate 15:42:32 "generate generate p p > h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l-" with error:
> generate 15:42:32 InvalidCmd : No particle generate in model
>
> Was wondering if you have any suggestions in that regard..
>
> Many thanks,
> Jingjing
>
> --
> You received this question notification because you are an answer
> contact for MadGraph5_aMC@NLO.

Hi Olivier,

So sorry about that typo. Just fixed that and received another error
message that seemed more informative:

...
generate 16:34:17 INFO: get decay diagram for h
generate 16:34:17 INFO: get decay diagram for t
generate 16:34:17 Pass to numerical integration for computing the widths:
generate 16:34:17 INFO: More info in temporary files:
generate 16:34:17
/gpfs/loomis/project/baker/jp2555/MCgenHigh/HAHM_ggf_ZZd_4l_mZd95/tmpmHXg5G/temp_decay/index.html
generate 16:34:24 Command "generate_events -f Test --nb_core=1" interrupted
in sub-command:
generate 16:34:24 "set max_npoint_for_channel 0" with error:
generate 16:34:24 error : can't start new thread
generate 16:34:24 Please report this bug on
https://bugs.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo
generate 16:34:24 More information is found in 'MG5_debug'.

The 'MG5_debug" file has also been attached.

Many thanks!
Jing

On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 4:15 PM Olivier Mattelaer <
<email address hidden>> wrote:

> Your question #692927 on MadGraph5_aMC@NLO changed:
> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927
>
> Olivier Mattelaer proposed the following answer:
> You wrote "generate" twice:
> > generate 15:42:32 generate generate g g > h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l-
>
> Cheers,
>
> Olivier
>
> > On 15 Sep 2020, at 21:50, Jingjing Pan <
> <email address hidden>> wrote:
> >
> > Question #692927 on MadGraph5_aMC@NLO changed:
> > https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927
> >
> > Jingjing Pan posted a new comment:
> > Hi Olivier,
> >
> > Thanks so much again and just wanted to follow up --
> >
> > Just tried "g g >h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l-" while received the following
> > error message:
> >
> > generate 15:42:32 generate generate g g > h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l-
> > generate 15:42:32 Command "import
> /gpfs/loomis/project/baker/jp2555/MCgenHigh/proc_card_mg5.dat" interrupted
> in sub-command:
> > generate 15:42:32 "generate generate p p > h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l-" with
> error:
> > generate 15:42:32 InvalidCmd : No particle generate in model
> >
> > Was wondering if you have any suggestions in that regard..
> >
> > Many thanks,
> > Jingjing
> >
> > --
> > You received this question notification because you are an answer
> > contact for MadGraph5_aMC@NLO.
>
> --
> If this answers your question, please go to the following page to let us
> know that it is solved:
>
> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927/+confirm?answer_id=5
>
> If you still need help, you can reply to this email or go to the
> following page to enter your feedback:
> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927
>
> You received this question notification because you asked the question.
>

This has likely nothing to do with MG5aMC,
This can only happens for large scan.
But as you run mg5amc in a framework this might be a limitation of your framework.

Cheers,

Olivier

> On 15 Sep 2020, at 22:45, Jingjing Pan <email address hidden> wrote:
>
> Question #692927 on MadGraph5_aMC@NLO changed:
> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927
>
> Status: Answered => Open
>
> Jingjing Pan is still having a problem:
> Hi Olivier,
>
> So sorry about that typo. Just fixed that and received another error
> message that seemed more informative:
>
> ...
> generate 16:34:17 INFO: get decay diagram for h
> generate 16:34:17 INFO: get decay diagram for t
> generate 16:34:17 Pass to numerical integration for computing the widths:
> generate 16:34:17 INFO: More info in temporary files:
> generate 16:34:17
> /gpfs/loomis/project/baker/jp2555/MCgenHigh/HAHM_ggf_ZZd_4l_mZd95/tmpmHXg5G/temp_decay/index.html
> generate 16:34:24 Command "generate_events -f Test --nb_core=1" interrupted
> in sub-command:
> generate 16:34:24 "set max_npoint_for_channel 0" with error:
> generate 16:34:24 error : can't start new thread
> generate 16:34:24 Please report this bug on
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo
> generate 16:34:24 More information is found in 'MG5_debug'.
>
> The 'MG5_debug" file has also been attached.
>
> Many thanks!
> Jing
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 4:15 PM Olivier Mattelaer <
> <email address hidden>> wrote:
>
>> Your question #692927 on MadGraph5_aMC@NLO changed:
>> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927
>>
>> Olivier Mattelaer proposed the following answer:
>> You wrote "generate" twice:
>>> generate 15:42:32 generate generate g g > h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l-
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Olivier
>>
>>> On 15 Sep 2020, at 21:50, Jingjing Pan <
>> <email address hidden>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Question #692927 on MadGraph5_aMC@NLO changed:
>>> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927
>>>
>>> Jingjing Pan posted a new comment:
>>> Hi Olivier,
>>>
>>> Thanks so much again and just wanted to follow up --
>>>
>>> Just tried "g g >h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l-" while received the following
>>> error message:
>>>
>>> generate 15:42:32 generate generate g g > h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l-
>>> generate 15:42:32 Command "import
>> /gpfs/loomis/project/baker/jp2555/MCgenHigh/proc_card_mg5.dat" interrupted
>> in sub-command:
>>> generate 15:42:32 "generate generate p p > h Z Zp > l+ l- l+ l-" with
>> error:
>>> generate 15:42:32 InvalidCmd : No particle generate in model
>>>
>>> Was wondering if you have any suggestions in that regard..
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>> Jingjing
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this question notification because you are an answer
>>> contact for MadGraph5_aMC@NLO.
>>
>> --
>> If this answers your question, please go to the following page to let us
>> know that it is solved:
>>
>> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927/+confirm?answer_id=5
>>
>> If you still need help, you can reply to this email or go to the
>> following page to enter your feedback:
>> https://answers.launchpad.net/mg5amcnlo/+question/692927
>>
>> You received this question notification because you asked the question.
>>
>
> --
> You received this question notification because you are an answer
> contact for MadGraph5_aMC@NLO.

Hi Olivier,

Sorry could you please provide a bit more details about "large scan" or "a limitation of the framework"?

Like you meant it should be an issue with the model on the theoretical side?

Best,
Jing

Thanks Olivier Mattelaer, that solved my question.