Me TV

Add support for complete scan with all-frequencies initial file

Asked by Alessio Gaeta

Hello,
I use me-tv 0.5.30 in Intrepid. By now, me-tv relies on initial scan infos provided by dvb-utils docs/examples; these infos are likely outdated (at least they are for Italy, where a transition to DVB-T is ongoing) and anyway the infos are largely incomplete (here in Italy channels schemes vary largely); that said, a "full scan" option would be the "universal solution".
I know me-tv does not support a native scan, but why do not include an initial scan file with the whole spectrum (well, with all valid channels/modulations, I mean...)? Something like that:

# Scanning list was created by Create_Scanning_Table by Johannes Bauer
T 177500000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 177500000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 177500000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 177500000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 184500000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 184500000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 184500000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 184500000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 191500000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 191500000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 191500000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 191500000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 198500000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 198500000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 198500000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 198500000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 205500000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 205500000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 205500000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 205500000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 212500000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 212500000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 212500000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 212500000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 219500000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 219500000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 219500000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 219500000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 226500000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 226500000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 226500000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 226500000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 474000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 474000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 474000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 474000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 482000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 482000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 482000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 482000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 490000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 490000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 490000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 490000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 498000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 498000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 498000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 498000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 506000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 506000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 506000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 506000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 514000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 514000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 514000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 514000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 522000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 522000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 522000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 522000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 530000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 530000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 530000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 530000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 538000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 538000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 538000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 538000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 546000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 546000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 546000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 546000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 554000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 554000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 554000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 554000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 562000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 562000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 562000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 562000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 570000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 570000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 570000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 570000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 578000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 578000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 578000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 578000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 586000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 586000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 586000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 586000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 594000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 594000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 594000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 594000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 602000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 602000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 602000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 602000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 610000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 610000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 610000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 610000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 618000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 618000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 618000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 618000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 626000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 626000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 626000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 626000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 634000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 634000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 634000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 634000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 642000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 642000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 642000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 642000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 650000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 650000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 650000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 650000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 658000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 658000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 658000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 658000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 666000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 666000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 666000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 666000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 674000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 674000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 674000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 674000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 682000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 682000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 682000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 682000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 690000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 690000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 690000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 690000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 698000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 698000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 698000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 698000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 706000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 706000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 706000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 706000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 714000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 714000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 714000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 714000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 722000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 722000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 722000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 722000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 730000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 730000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 730000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 730000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 738000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 738000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 738000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 738000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 746000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 746000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 746000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 746000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 754000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 754000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 754000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 754000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 762000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 762000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 762000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 762000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 770000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 770000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 770000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 770000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 778000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 778000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 778000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 778000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 786000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 786000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 786000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 786000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 794000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 794000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 794000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 794000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 802000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 802000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 802000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 802000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 810000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 810000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 810000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 810000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 818000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 818000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 818000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 818000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 826000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 826000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 826000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 826000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 834000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 834000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 834000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 834000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 842000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 842000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 842000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 842000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 850000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 850000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 850000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 850000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 858000000 7MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 858000000 7MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 858000000 8MHz 2/3 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE
T 858000000 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 8k 1/4 NONE

The full scan would be slow, of course, but it would not miss any MUX. And the average Windows user won't be scared anymore...

Thank you for your great work.

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Revision history for this message
Alessio Gaeta (meden) said : 		#1

Well. maybe that should go in Blueprints...

Revision history for this message
Michael Lamothe (lamothe-deactivatedaccount-deactivatedaccount) said : 		#2

It's alright to discuss here first. It's a nice idea but I think that the implementation will be our stumbling block. You have not included all frequencies, I think that the step size is actually 167K (from memory).

The reason why I haven't implemented an AUTO scan feature is because it doesn't work for me. Kaffiene does not return any channels for me on my USB stick. This option may get a few channels but I think that the parameters won't work for me.

Revision history for this message
Alessio Gaeta (meden) said : 		#3

I'm not a DVB expert, but I read something about it and, AFAIK:

- DVB-T uses same channels of analog TV in VHF and UHF bands.

- Channel frequencies vary by country or macro-area, and so is for frequency spacing (mostly 6-7 MHz for VHF and 8 MHz for UHF); as reference one can use something as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_channel_frequencies (tuning frequency should be the center frequency between video and audio carrier).

- Coding rate (FEC), modulation type and guard interval vary by repeater/provider; the combination of them determines the bitrate available (so it is related to number and quality of streams in each MUX/radio cannel).

First two point could be solved preparing scan tables for each zone/country with all channels.
Clearly, the third point is the most difficult to deal with. A "brute force" approach could be used, replicating each frequency line with permutations of modulation, FEC and guard, maybe being a little smart; for example, here in Bologna all MUXes use QAM64, so modulation could be country based. Or one could make bandwidth considerations: QAM64 an guard interval 1/32 provide greater bandwidth, so maybe broadcasters will likely use them (see http://happy.emu.id.au/lab/info/digtv/dvbt/ for reference).

Or one could be refer something as

http://www.dvb.org/dvb-deployment-data.xls

[ ;) I found it while writing... ]

I hope to be useful.

Revision history for this message
Alessio Gaeta (meden) said : 		#4

I found another source; it is a little old (2005), but I think these infos stay valid for a long time:

http://www.c2mweb.eu//files/CLIVE/whitepaper_Digital_Terrestrial_TTV.pdf

Revision history for this message
Alessio Gaeta (meden) said : 		#5

Ahem... Sorry for the "tear dropping"... The DVB site holds all updated infos needed here:

http://www.dvb.org/about_dvb/dvb_worldwide/

Basically, I think these are same infos you can find it the spreadsheet, but on country pages you can find a useful last update time too.

Revision history for this message
Scott Evans (vk7hse) said : 		#6

Your problem is not uncommon! I too had this issue. But there is a small
utility that can do what your after and generate the required file that
you need. First thing is you will need to download from...

   http://edafe.org/vdr/wscan.html

>From this all the information you require is on that site. you should
also consider once you have a working file contacting Christoph via
email <email address hidden> he is involved in the v4l-dvb group
that maintain the world wide data for dtv channels. By doing this you
are not only helping yourself but also updating the channel information
in you local area for others as well.

Scott Evans VK7HSE
Phone: +61362291658
Mobile: +61417586157
Skype: vk7hse
<email address hidden>
http://www.vk7hse.hobby-site.org
PGP/GPG Key ID 74639624

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