Request for a exaile-translators group

Asked by Mathias Brodala

Please create a exaile-translators group and let us members of exaile-devel administer it.

Thank you.

Question information

Language:
English Edit question
Status:
Answered
For:
Launchpad itself Edit question
Assignee:
Данило Шеган Edit question
Last query:
Last reply:

This question was reopened

Revision history for this message
Adi Roiban (adiroiban) said :
#1

Hi,

I think that one of the Rosetta admins could create that group for you, but I'm suggestion to assing the translations of Exaile to "Launchpad Translators" group.

In Launchpad , a "translations group", is a group of translation teams. You will have to create the required translations teams and appoint them to each language. You can also appoint persons.

What is the benefit of creating a special translation group for Exaile ?

You can work with "Launchpad Translators" group and launchpad translations teams just like they are Exaile translaton team.
The benefit you will get by using "Launchpad Translators" it that the group is already created and there are already teams appointed for languages (and other teams will be appointed soon).

I think that translators should work toghether in teams, even if the are translating Exaile, GNOME or KDE. Dividing translators in teams per applications is not of much use for the translators.

You can read more about Launchpad Translators group here:
https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/LauncpadTranslators

Cheers,

Revision history for this message
Adi Roiban (adiroiban) said :
#2
Revision history for this message
Mathias Brodala (mathbr) said :
#3

> What is the benefit of creating a special translation group for Exaile ?

This way we can make sure that not just anybody edit our translations which will drop the quality dramatically. Am I right in assuming that joining Launchpad Translators would also allow us to do this?

How exactly do we do that? I cannot get any further than here:
https://translations.launchpad.net/+groups/launchpad-translators

There isn't even a German translation group yet (which I would be responsible for in Exaile).

Revision history for this message
Adi Roiban (adiroiban) said :
#4

You can control the translation quality by using Launchpad Translators Group and the Restricted translation policy.

In this way everyone could add suggestions, but only members of the appointed teams can review and approve them.

We are just starting the Launchpad Translation Group.
You can start the Launchpad German translation team and handle it just like an Exaile translation team dedicated to German.

Basicaly Launchpad Translation Group will be a web of trust for translators.

There are thousand of projects in Launchpad and it will be hard both for translators and project maintainers to have different groups and teams for each project.

You shoud not see Launchpad Translators Group is not an external translation project, disconnected from your project. Feel free to use the Launchpad Translators Group just like a group dedicated to Exaile.

I think we all have the same goal: assuring translation quality, so why not work toghether and share our knowledge ?
Cheers,

Revision history for this message
Adi Roiban (adiroiban) said :
#5

Ah. I forgot.

If you still want to have our own translation group, please let us know and a Rosetta admin should create one.

But I do hope that various project will be able to share translation teams and work together for assuring translation quality.

Revision history for this message
Mathias Brodala (mathbr) said :
#6

> You can start the Launchpad German translation team

How do I do that? I have no permissions to do anything like that. Or I am missing something fundamentally.

I wouldn't mind joining the Launchpad Translators group and creating such a team. But doing this every translator who also joins this team will be able to edit Exaile’s translations, even when he has no relation to Exaile at all. Thus, the process of allowing translators to enter that team should be handled with care. Who would be the supervisor, if any? I wouldn't mind doing this either, but besides Exaile I have no relation to any other project on LP.

Revision history for this message
Adi Roiban (adiroiban) said :
#7

To start the Launchpad German Translation team you will only need to create a new team in Launchpad , name it lp-l10n-de , and let us know.

The required info should be here:
https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/LaunchpadTranslators#Steps%20to%20Follow%20for%20Appointing%20a%20Team

If something is not clear, please let us know and we will improve the documentation.

Each team should have at least one supervisor. You can be the supervisor for the German team.

Cheers

Revision history for this message
Mathias Brodala (mathbr) said :
#8

Alright, I created that team now. But why am I still unable to approve uploaded translation files?

Revision history for this message
Mathias Brodala (mathbr) said :
#9

Because there is no reason it should just work like that. Sorry about that question.

Revision history for this message
Adi Roiban (adiroiban) said :
#10

I have appointed the new team for German.

Please also add a link to the translation guidelines for German. (If you don't know what is that just ask :)

If you need help with managing the German team feel free to contact Sebastian Heinlein (https://edge.launchpad.net/~glatzor) . Also you may consider adding the Ubuntu German Translation team as a subteam.

Cheers,

Revision history for this message
Mathias Brodala (mathbr) said :
#11

> Please also add a link to the translation guidelines for German. (If you don't know what is that just ask :)

Shouldn't https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/Guide suffice?

> Also you may consider adding the Ubuntu German Translation team as a subteam.

How do I do that?

Revision history for this message
Adi Roiban (adiroiban) said :
#12

You can also use the Generic Translation Guide if it's enough for German.

For example when translating into Romanian there are some special cases that don't apply to other langauges and this is why we have a different guide based on the generic one.

You can add new members and teams from here (the UI is not very intuitive):
https://edge.launchpad.net/~lp-l10n-de/+addmember

Cheers

Revision history for this message
Mathias Brodala (mathbr) said :
#13

> You can also use the Generic Translation Guide if it's enough for German.

I read the guide and it pretty much says it all. If problems arise, I could add a complete guide at any time.

> You can add new members and teams from here (the UI is not very intuitive):

Indeed, I never thought that teams are also instances of members.

But now back to my latest question: How can I become able to approve translation files uploads?

Revision history for this message
Adi Roiban (adiroiban) said :
#14

After inviting the German Ubuntu Localization Team please get in touch with them, as they will need to accept the invitation.

First time you manualy upload a POT file it must be manualy approved by a Rosetta admin.
My suggestion is to enable the bzr branch translation syncronization and your pot files will be automaticaly approved and imported into Launchpad each time you push a new revision for that branch.

Cheers!

Revision history for this message
Данило Шеган (danilo) said :
#15

> But now back to my latest question: How can I become able to approve translation files uploads?

You can't. That's done automatically, or by one of Launchpad Translations admins. We can't let people at large do that because they would make a lot of mistakes. So, the question is why would you want to do that?

(note that translation groups would not have let you do that either)

Revision history for this message
Mathias Brodala (mathbr) said :
#16

> > But now back to my latest question: How can I become able to approve translation files uploads?

> You can't. That's done automatically, or by one of Launchpad Translations admins. We can't let people at large do that because they would make a lot of mistakes. So, the question is why would you want to do that?

Because I don’t like the idea of having to depend on someone I don’t know who judges my work and refuses to accept it without giving my any reasons. In short, if I want to update a translation, then I want it to be done immediately. I know best if there are errors anywhere.

> (note that translation groups would not have let you do that either)

That’s too bad. So LP’s translation framework is set up to take responsibility from developers? Even if they want that responsibility? If that’s the case then I will consider ignoring Rosetta and doing the old-fashioned way of just committing to trunk.

Revision history for this message
Adi Roiban (adiroiban) said :
#17

Mathias, you are free to use the translation tools and process that suits your needs.

From my point of view you should go with bzr branch sync for translations. In this way your po and .pot files will be automaticaly approved.

Also, at least when developing my project, the option of approving a .POT file upload makes no sense. I just went with the bzr integration and everthing is great. My .po and .pot files are updated in Rosetta at each bzr push.

Cheers

Revision history for this message
Mathias Brodala (mathbr) said :
#18

> From my point of view you should go with bzr branch sync for translations. In this way your po and .pot files will be automaticaly approved.

Yeah, I think I will do that.

> Also, at least when developing my project, the option of approving a .POT file upload makes no sense.

There was no point in this conversation where I talked about .POT files. I was talking about translation files (.po) all the time. I want to be able to approve their upload and import.

But as you said, the bzr sync will do.

Revision history for this message
Данило Шеган (danilo) said :
#19

Hi Mathias,

У чет, 02. 07 2009. у 07:57 +0000, Mathias Brodala пише:

> Because I don’t like the idea of having to depend on someone I don’t
> know who judges my work and refuses to accept it without giving my any
> reasons. In short, if I want to update a translation, then I want it to
> be done immediately. I know best if there are errors anywhere.

Translation uploads will be approved automatically, with a very short
delay. There is a queue there because sometimes there's a lot of stuff
to be imported, so it can't be done immediately (i.e. some projects can
have thousands of files to import). It's done as soon as possible, and
it's all done automatically.

If you want 'immediate' results, you can always use the web UI.

> > (note that translation groups would not have let you do that either)
>
> That’s too bad. So LP’s translation framework is set up to take
> responsibility from developers?

It's designed to take work off developers' hands. Sometimes, some
developers try to do what would break Launchpad behaviour in other
aspects (eg. uploading POT files using a language other than English as
a base, or uploading POT files for non-open source projects).

We have to manually check for that, or we'd have a lot more problems.
After we've established initial trust in a project, approval happens
automatically again.

> Even if they want that responsibility?

I've asked already what is it that you want to do? Many
responsibilities are already in the hands of project maintainers. Some
are not, but you might not really need them either.

> If that’s the case then I will consider ignoring Rosetta and doing the
> old-fashioned way of just committing to trunk.

That would be a shame, especially since you haven't said what is the
exact problem you are experiencing.

Cheers,
Danilo

Revision history for this message
Данило Шеган (danilo) said :
#20

У чет, 02. 07 2009. у 14:52 +0000, Mathias Brodala пише:
>
> There was no point in this conversation where I talked about .POT
> files.
> I was talking about translation files (.po) all the time. I want to be
> able to approve their upload and import.

They get approved automatically anyway. Sometimes that can take up to a
few hours, but that happens only rarely. It's usually done much faster.

Why is this a problem for you?

> But as you said, the bzr sync will do.

Actually, bzr sync has all the same rules for translation files. Only
rules for template files are slightly more relaxed.

Revision history for this message
Mathias Brodala (mathbr) said :
#21

> > I was talking about translation files (.po) all the time. I want to be
> > able to approve their upload and import.

> They get approved automatically anyway. Sometimes that can take up to a
> few hours, but that happens only rarely. It's usually done much faster.
>
> Why is this a problem for you?

Because it does not seem to work. I’ve uploaded my .po file multiple times already and it always fails without a reason. At least I am not told about the reasons. See: https://translations.launchpad.net/exaile/trunk/+imports I expected to become able to select „Approved“ from the selector there.

Revision history for this message
Adi Roiban (adiroiban) said :
#22

Hm.. if there are problems with the import process I recommend you to file a bug.

From what I see in the queue, the po/messages.pot file was approved.
Cheers,

Revision history for this message
Данило Шеган (danilo) said :
#23

This is most likely bug 394224 that you are hitting. We are working on that.

Revision history for this message
Mathias Brodala (mathbr) said :
#24

> From what I see in the queue, the po/messages.pot file was approved.

But not the PO files. They always fail, no matter what.

And I think I would like to request a exaile-translators group after all. This way we are a lot quicker with accepting new translators. And not everyone will be willing to jump in and become the supervisor of a new TL team if his language does not have one yet.

The best thing would be if we’d have full review rights including uploaded POT and PO files. I still do not like depending on unknown people/mechanisms for such stuff.

Revision history for this message
Mathias Brodala (mathbr) said :
#25

> This is most likely bug 394224 that you are hitting. We are working on that.

What’s the essence of this report? I don’t know anything about LP internals.

Revision history for this message
Данило Шеган (danilo) said :
#26

У пон, 13. 07 2009. у 22:36 +0000, Mathias Brodala пише:
> Question #75785 on Launchpad Translations changed:
> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+question/75785
>
> Status: Answered => Open
>
> Mathias Brodala is still having a problem:
> > From what I see in the queue, the po/messages.pot file was approved.
>
> But not the PO files. They always fail, no matter what.

That means that Launchpad has tried to import them and failed. It failes
due to a bug I mentioned (bug 394224).

A bug can sometimes block your work for some time, and this one is an
ugly one so it's harder to track down.

> The best thing would be if we’d have full review rights including
> uploaded POT and PO files. I still do not like depending on unknown
> people/mechanisms for such stuff.

You can't have them, and if you wish to use Launchpad, but are not
willing to learn about those "unknown people/mechanisms", perhaps
Launchpad is not the best option for you.

Cheers,
Danilo

Revision history for this message
Данило Шеган (danilo) said :
#27

У пон, 13. 07 2009. у 22:37 +0000, Mathias Brodala пише:
> Question #75785 on Launchpad Translations changed:
> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+question/75785
>
> Mathias Brodala gave more information on the question:
> > This is most likely bug 394224 that you are hitting. We are working on
> that.
>
> What’s the essence of this report? I don’t know anything about LP
> internals.

It means that due to a problem in our code, some imports fail even if
they shouldn't. I.e. it's not your fault, it's Launchpad's fault that
they don't succeed.

Bug has been linked to this question, so you'll see when it is 'fix
released' as soon as it is: that's when you'll be able to try
reimporting translations and they should work.

Revision history for this message
Mathias Brodala (mathbr) said :
#28

> Bug has been linked to this question, so you'll see when it is 'fix
> released' as soon as it is: that's when you'll be able to try
> reimporting translations and they should work.

I’ll wait for this to happen first then. For now, is there any other way to get PO files imported? The bzr sync apparently only picks up the POT files in the bzr tree.

Revision history for this message
Данило Шеган (danilo) said :
#29

No, bzr sync picks up PO files as well, but the date display in the queue is not updated (internally, there is a date_last_updated, and we should probably show it so we don't confuse users).

Can you help with this problem?

Provide an answer of your own, or ask Mathias Brodala for more information if necessary.

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