I want to upload a PO file

Asked by Bert Van de Poel on 2009-03-15

Hi, I'd like to upload the PO file I requested but apparently I can't.

Is this because I'm not part of the dutch translator team, if so, can you please make me a member cause I already asked and all the members think that translating on launchpad isn't useful and that I should translate upstream (but that isn't always possible so).

Help ?

Question information

English Edit question
Launchpad itself Edit question
Jeroen T. Vermeulen Edit question
Solved by:
Wouter Bolsterlee
Last query:
Last reply:
jml | assigning to jtv
Adi Roiban (adiroiban) said : #1

Hi Bert,

This is a complicated situation.

Technicaly, like you know, only members of a translation team could upload files. The reason of this restriction is to prevent flooding Rosetta with wrong files.

This is also a vicious circle because all uploaded files are going directly into Ubuntu without any review option.
In this case new translators could not upload files, because those file needs to be reviewed and they contain errors.
In the Romanian team, I ask new translators to send me those files, I review them and give them feedback and upload them in Rosetta.

But the right solution for this problem is to be part of dutch Ubuntu Translations team and ask some of the dutch team members to review your translations and give you feedback. If your translations are good you should be part of the team.

From what you are saying it looks like the coordinators of Dutch Ubuntu translation team don't want to accept you in the team. The only reason why they don't allow you in the team is because they don't want you to work with Rosetta?

In the same time I suggest to contiue the translation work to everythin that could be translated upstream.

If you are a good translators and you are not accepted in the Dutch team, I suggest to raise this issue in the Ubuntu Council.

If you have any other questions, or anything is not clear please let me know!


Bert Van de Poel (bhack) said : #2

As you can read in this topic they will not let anyone in: http://forum.ubuntu-nl.org/vertalingen/hoe-kan-ik-in-het-nederlandse-vertaalteam-komen/msg352922/?PHPSESSID=dbb49241230d55d10db93f8856a502f2#msg352922 (sorry, it's in dutch of course, but I can translate it if you want).

Also, everything I've mailed to the mailing list was replied to with a lot of anger, as if launchpad is a bad thing in itself.

This is really frustrating because some ubuntu-specific apps aren't translated yet and there is no "upstream" that can translate at is this is upstream.

Adi Roiban (adiroiban) said : #3

In this case please raise the issue in the Ubuntu Council <email address hidden>

Can you please also raise this issue on the Ubuntu Translators mailing list. https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators

Please quote the text where it is said that the Ubuntu Translations team is closed.

You can also add my at the CC as I will support your actions!

Kindest regards,

Jeroen T. Vermeulen (jtv) said : #4

It seems the team doesn't want to translate in Launchpad because of "legacy" problems, mainly the fact that Ubuntu-specific translations override upstream ones in Launchpad. I call this a legacy problem because where it actually becomes a problem—low translation quality—it stems from years ago when Ubuntu translations were a free-for-all. The old translations may still be there, but things can be done about that.

Nowadays, only the translation team determines what goes into the Ubuntu translations, and when they should or shouldn't override the existing upstream translations. Any Launchpad user can enter suggested translations, and then the translation team does the quality control. Assuming that the team's owners are reasonably careful in approving memberships, a one-time cleanup effort should take care of this problem.

The other problem mentioned is translations not going into upstream. The problem there is that "upstream" is not exactly a single magical email address that Launchpad can automatically send things to. It's very easy for upstream authors/translators of a package to download the Ubuntu translations and incorporate them, or each translation team can actively contribute the Ubuntu translations back upstream, but we have no set policy or framework for this. In practice it depends on initiative from the translation team; the team is best placed to judge whether a translation is Ubuntu-specific or worth sharing with upstream.

We're working to improve these underlying causes in Launchpad, though obviously there is more to do. Ongoing documentation rewrites are part of that; so was allowing translation groups/teams to add documentation links to translation pages they manage. Also, we've made an exception to the Launchpad-overrides-upstream mechanism for strings that weren't previously translated upstream. We've recently planned out some ways to make the workflow clearer and more effective.

Last but not least, the Ubuntu organization is in the process of hiring someone who can take charge of Ubuntu's translation process and drive more improvements.

Bert Van de Poel (bhack) said : #5

But what am I supposed to do in the mean time with my translated po files ?

Adi Roiban (adiroiban) said : #6

Hi Bert,

If the Dutch translations team members are closed , the only option right now is to send them upstream.

I will try to convince the Dutch translators of opening their process. I will keep you informed about the process

Wouter Bolsterlee (uws) said : #7

There is no problem at all with the Dutch translations and the processes.

In the past there were quite some issues wrt. differences between (correct) upstream translations and (incorrect) downstream translations, for which upstream got blamed by users. The Ubuntu Dutch translator group has been moderated since then, for the sole reason of quality control. They don't want everyone to submit translations full of spelling and grammatical errors, so the team is moderated and translations have to be reviewed before people can join the team: they have to "build up a reputation of a decent translator" first. This is also the process that the Ducth Gnome upstream translators have used for YEARS without problems.

Complaints about "my translations cannot be submitted" are completely invalid. Just submit them to the Ubuntu Dutch translators, and they will review and approve/reject the changes.

Hopefully this clarifies the situation.

— Wouter (loves his language without spelling errors, and so do the Ubuntu Dutch translators)

(Note that I'm a Gnome upstream contributor, not Ubuntu downstream.)

I've linked a bug relevant to this problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/293680

For the time being (until we fix the bug), please get in touch with Ubuntu Dutch translators and ask them if they can do the upload for you (after review, of course). Other than that, you'd have to bring it up with Ubuntu Translation coordinators team.

Bert Van de Poel (bhack) said : #9

@Wouter Bolsterlee

I know the GNOME upstream team works fine and I also like my language a lot (in school I'm known as a purist altough I consider myself to bsaically be someone who cares about his language) but I want to be able to translate the parts that are typically ubuntu's and the translation team is keeping me from that.

I have tried to apply for a place in the team, I wouldn't have a problem doing tests or giving PO files to the team members for as long as I am really helping to translate. But that is not possible right now, I can only make suggestions by hand (which doesn't go as quick as PO file stuff)

Best Wouter Bolsterlee (uws) said : #10

Bert, I'd strongly suggest to contact the Ubuntu Dutch Translators directly and ask for a review of your work. I'm confident people will look at it and offer suggestions on how to proceed.

That said, this is really not the right place to discuss the so-called problem you claim to be experiencing.

Kind regards,

    — Wouter

Bert Van de Poel (bhack) said : #11

Thanks Wouter Bolsterlee (uws), that solved my question.