Unrelated team Added

Asked by Ahmed Shams on 2011-03-15

The Team Admin Usama Akkad(~damascene) have added the team ~ubuntu-l10n-ar to ~lp-l10n-ar, and the problem with that is:
1. the two teams are totally unrelated, lp-l10n-ar is responsible for translating lp-hosted projects, while ubuntu-l10n-ar is responsible for Ubuntu's messeges only. By adding them to each other, we force every Ubuntu-Only contributer to be responsible for other OSS on lp, too.
2. Doing this will violate the members' freedom to choose which job to take, and which responsibility to bear.
3. Adding the two teams occured by admin(Usama) himself only, and WITHOUT any kind of consultation to the ~ubuntu-l10n-ar team members!!!!!!!
4. I tried hard to deliver this Idea to the Usama, but in vain.
I have no problems with working with the 2 teams, I'm just defending the freedom of the newcomers to ~ubuntu-l10n-ar,
and I love to be in ~lp-l10n-ar "BUT ON MY OWN CHOICE!. AND WITH MY FULL INTENSION TO BEAR RESPONSIBILITY",
I asked the Admin(Usama) to approve my proposal to lp-l10n-ar but he denied too, saying that all members in ~ubuntu-l10n-ar are members of lp-l10n-ar(which I can't understand why to be?)

I just wanted to know, whether i'm right or wrong?

lp-l10n-ar: https://launchpad.net/~lp-l10n-ar/+members
ubuntu-l10n-ar: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-ar
Thanks,

Question information

Language:
English Edit question
Status:
Solved
For:
Launchpad itself Edit question
Assignee:
No assignee Edit question
Solved by:
David Planella
Solved:
2011-03-18
Last query:
2011-03-18
Last reply:
2011-03-18
Best David Planella (dpm) said : #1

Hi Ahmed,

Thanks for raising up your concerns. Let me try to give a bit of background info and address the points in your request.

The Launchpad Translators group, of which the lp-l10n-ar is part of, is a confederation of teams responsible for the translation of Open Source software hosted in Launchpad. Launchpad makes available two types of products for translation:

* Projects: such as e.g. Chromium (https://translations.launchpad.net/chromium-browser)
* Distributions: such as Ubuntu (https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu)

Ubuntu is obviously a key product in Launchpad, important enough to have a translation group of its own, the Ubuntu Translators group. But still, it falls under the umbrella of sofware that can be translated in Launchpad.

It's for this reason that we often recommend to translation teams having an lp-l10n-* umbrella team including ubuntu-l10n-* as a subteam. With this approach we mirror the above relationship in translation groups while keeping a separation between Ubuntu and the other projects.

By having an ubuntu-l10n-* team as a subteam of lp-l10n-*

 * The lp-l10n-* team is already joined by a team of experienced translators
 * Ubuntu Translators are able to translate other projects in Launchpad assigned to the Launchpad Translators
 group
 * You can still separate what each team can translate:
    * Direct members of ubuntu-l10n-* will be able to translate Ubuntu and projects assigned to Launchpad Translators
    * Direct members of lp-l10n-* who are not part of ubuntu-l10n-* will only be able to translate projects assigned to Launchpad Translators, but will not be able to translate Ubuntu.

> 1. the two teams are totally unrelated, lp-l10n-ar is responsible for translating lp-hosted projects, while ubuntu-l10n-ar is responsible for Ubuntu's messeges only.

That's correct, although as explained above, the teams are not entirely unrelated: Launchpad Translators are appointed to translate software in Launchpad, and Ubuntu falls under that category. It just happens to be big enough to have a translation team of its own.

> By adding them to each other, we force every Ubuntu-Only contributer to be responsible for other OSS on lp, too.

No one is forcing anyone to translate anything, regardless of which team you are part of. As a voluntary contributor, you are free to decide which projects you want to contribute to.

> 2. Doing this will violate the members' freedom to choose which job to take, and which responsibility to bear.

As stated above, no one is forcing anyone or compromising anyone's freedom. Being part of the lp-l10n-* team does not mean that contributors are forced to translate software in Launchpad. Voluntary contributors can organize their time in the best way they see fit and choose what they can (or want to) translate.

> 3. Adding the two teams occured by admin(Usama) himself only, and WITHOUT any kind of consultation to the ~ubuntu-l10n-ar team members!!!!!!!

I agree with this point, for the benefit of transparency and to have everyone on board, there should have been some kind of announcement on the ubuntu-l10n-ara translators list. I'll ask Usama to see if he can do that.

I see no particular problem about ubuntu-l10n-ar being a subteam of lp-l10n-ar. Of course, this is just my personal opinion and you are free to dispute that, but if you do, I'd like to ask you to make sure it is the position of the whole ubuntu-l10n team and not just a personal one.

Your team has got a public mailing list, and I see no public record of a discussion about this, at least in the last couple of months. My recommendation would be for you guys to discuss it as a team there and come up with a resolution on what to do. If, after that, you still need external mediation to resolve this, I'll be more than happy to help.

After having seen the difficulties and discussions around getting the lp-l10n-ar team appointed [1], I would personally love to see it functioning without conflict.

Thanks.

Regards,
David.

[1] https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/108979

Usama Akkad (damascene) said : #2

First I thank David for clearing things out and for notifying me, other wise I would not know about this subject.

I apologies for not informing other team members. It's just that I felt like there is no activity back then, and I needed to sort things fast and enable the already trusted translators to start working in lp-l10n-ar

I prefer to discuss our issues internally before we complain publicly. I think we can reach a point-of agreement if we meet on IRC and talk about the issue.

Ahmed Shams (ashams) said : #3

Thank You David for your Kind reply and clear explaination, and
Thanks Usama, for your fast response,
and I think if I got such understanding reply from the begginning< I wouldn't come to here. to clear my side, I Mailed Usama before about that point and didn't got enough answer, but now it's clear, thanks David.
And I'm really happy that Usama had just confirmed the mistake of not consulting other team members and collect their opinions. My brother, this is very important, because thats how we keep ourselves active, by making everyone share every thing :)

> I prefer to discuss our issues internally before we complain publicly. I think we can reach a point-of
> agreement if we meet on IRC and talk about the issue.
I tryed to do, but in vain:

[Message1]
On 12/03/2011, Ahmed Shams <email address hidden> wrote:
> Salamu 'Alaikum;
> 1. Yesterday.....
> 2. I'd like to join https://launchpad.net/~lp-l10n-ar, on PERSONAL BASIS,
> NOT through my ~ubuntu-l10n-ar membership, SO I've proposed today and I
> wish
> to get approved, if there is any problems with that, please let me know.
[/Message1]

[Message2]
على الإثنين 14 آذار 2011 18:14, كتب Ahmed Shams:

    السلام عليكم؛
    أنا أحمد خطاب شمس الدين،
    https://launchpad.net/~ashams
    عضو في فريق ترجمة أوبنتو،
    كنت أود الاشتراك في فريق ترجمة لانش باد بشكل شخصي،(ليس باشتراكي من خلال
    عضوية فريق ترجمة أوبنتو فقط) (حيث أني لم أحبذ هذه الفكرة في الأصل!)
    أظن أن العضوية متاحة للأفراد في داخل فرق ترجمة لانش باد؟، ان كانت هناك
    مشكلة ما تمنع ذلك، رجاءًا أخبرني.

Ahmed Shams (ashams) said : #4

sorry, clicked by mistake, I just wnated to show that I tryed to internally before on public.
Thanks David & Usama, Now I'm comforted thanks to your great effort.

Ahmed Shams (ashams) said : #5

Thanks David Planella, that solved my question.

David Planella (dpm) said : #6

Glad to hear everyone is happy with the outcome :-).

Happy translating!