Will the Object > Symbols support Objects?

I added a thread proposing fly-out menus for Inkscape where new shapes and variations on current shapes could be supplied as a courtesy to users new and old alike.

Reference: http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=14049

Thank you, ~suv.

"... and of course plenty of related feature requests for symbol (or
stencil) libraries in inkscape in the bug tracker (those are not yet
updated to reflect the current state in development builds)."

I won't harass the dev team for more. However, I am curious about my observations (0.48+devel r12322):

1. Word Balloons and Flow Chart Shapes at this point appear to be uneditable. The symbols cannot be ungrouped. Therefore, removing the words "Think Balloon" (for example) is currently not possible with Inkscape's toolset. I can't get to the nodes using the F2 tool either. The same is true with the "Flow Chart Shapes". No colors can be modified by any means I'm aware of.

2. Logic symbols allow for fill and contour colour changes.

If this is unintentional, I can post a bug report. If this is how that library of shapes and balloons is supposed to work, I'll mark this thread Problem Solved.

Thanks ~suv, that solved my question.

Hi BobSongs (sorry for replying late):

On 2013-05-14 01:35 +0100, BobSongs wrote:
> (…) However, I am curious about my observations (0.48+devel r12322):
>
> 1. Word Balloons and Flow Chart Shapes at this point appear to be
> uneditable. The symbols cannot be ungrouped. Therefore, removing the
> words "Think Balloon" (for example) is currently not possible with
> Inkscape's toolset. I can't get to the nodes using the F2 tool either.
> The same is true with the "Flow Chart Shapes". No colors can be modified
> by any means I'm aware of.

'Symbols' instantiated in the current document can be edited in two ways:
1) keep <symbol> feature: use the commands in menu 'Object > Symbol' to
convert the symbol to a group, edit the group (aka its members), and
finally convert the group back to a symbol.
2) "brute force": unlink (like a clone), and edit at will with regular
tools.

With regard to editing a placeholder text e.g. in the 'Word Balloon'
symbols, a proposed enhancement (not yet implemented) might come handy
in the future:
<quote>
Generic symbols: It should be possible to extend the Symbol dialog to
include <g> elements as well as <symbol> elements. A group could be
marked as a symbol by adding an "inkscape:symbol" tag. In this way one
can put place holders in for things like text: (…)
</quote>
<http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/SymbolsDialog#Future_Enhancements>

> 2. Logic symbols allow for fill and contour colour changes.

AFAIU the 'Logic Symbols' and the 'Symbol Signs' (which belong to the
original set contributed by Tavmjong Bah) have been carefully crafted to
allow recoloring instances of a symbol individually, whereas the symbols
of the libraries added later by Martin Owens do not support this (they
keep the original color no matter what styes are applied to the inserted
symbol). Both types IMHO seem legit use cases of symbols / symbol
libraries, and the details depend on / vary with the intent and skills
of the author.

The wiki page about the new 'Symbols' dialog & symbol libraries explains
briefly how styles for symbols can be defined (based on SVG styling
rules), i.e. how symbols can have a default style, and may have "fixed"
or flexible attributes too (allowing to change the style without
unlinking the instanciated symbol (like clones), or converting it to
group, edit objects inside the group and converting back to symbol). The
underlying basics are the same SVG styling rules as are already known to
Inkscape users for clones:

<quote>
In order to allow styling of symbols from within Inkscape, styling
should be kept out of <symbol> elements as much as possible. It is then
possible for a symbol to inherit the styling of the <use> element that
references it. In order to provide a default style to a <symbol> one can
either provide a general default style in the root <svg> element of the
library or add a symbol specific default style by putting a style string
in the "inkscape:symbol-style" attribute inside the symbol element. When
a symbol is selected in the Symbol dialog, the style will be added to
the <use> element in the clipboard.
</quote>
<http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/SymbolsDialog#Symbol_Libraries>

Known issues are listed here:
<http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/SymbolsDialog#Bugs.2FIssues>

> If this is unintentional, I can post a bug report. If this is how that
> library of shapes and balloons is supposed to work, I'll mark this
> thread Problem Solved.

From my point of view, it is intended behavior that
1. symbols need a separate set of tools for editing ('Convert symbol to
group, Convert group to symbol, or 'Unlink').
2. inserted symbols may be (or may not be) individually styled
(partially or full wrt to objects and to individual objects' fill and/or
stroke properties), depending on the symbol definition in the symbol
library.

Excellent! Thank you ever so much. I look forward to 0.49.

I appreciate the answer and I'll give the wiki page a more thorough read.