Suggestion: Spots explored by geolgists should remain visible

Bug #892312 reported by Astuur
16
This bug affects 2 people
Affects Status Importance Assigned to Milestone
widelands
Invalid
Wishlist
Unassigned

Bug Description

Sending the geologists to a mountain (or for water) to explore is not really fun.
Often you do something in between and don't come back to the mountain in the right time to see the markings.
Besides, they tend to explore too little and always the wrong places :)
You then typically set unconnected mines to remember the spots for later, but all this is not really comfortable.
I want to suggest making the geologist's findings permanently available (only for the player in his territory, of course)

Would it be possible to collect the coordinates of the geologist results, compare them with
the existing mining spaces, and replace the build help icons for identical spots with ones, that show the results?
Geologists flags for places where no mines can be build, will get lost, but that would not matter much.
These icons would of course reflect the state when the last geological survey was done, and might need an update
after you have exhausted one or more mines in the region.
The geologists would be send as usual, and do the same job including planting their vanishing signes, but
additionally the results would get stored in the build help icons so that new results for a coordinate replace older ones.
The player would then see the results of all former explorations by his geologists, whenever he switches the buildhelp to on.
I have prepared a mockup how this may look in a WL landsscape (hardly the final version)

Revision history for this message
Astuur (wolfsteinmetz) wrote :
Revision history for this message
Astuur (wolfsteinmetz) wrote :

The icons themselves are here.
The color dots seem to be too big, the "no resource" icon is not different enough from the "not explored" state,
and the "Water" icons are just rough sketches.
So, not very good currently but it helps to transport the overall idea.
Maybe the whole thing is too complicated to program anyhow, lets hear our coders.

Revision history for this message
Hans Joachim Desserud (hjd) wrote :

Personally don't see the need for this, since as you mention it is easy to keep an unbuilt mine around as a reminder. (Wells I generally just build because water tends to be everywhere on most maps.) Though, it has annoyed me that when I send out geologists to scout an area and while I'm busy doing other things the signs disappear.

Also, would it not be simpler to just increase the lifetime of the signs or perhaps keep them around forever? The latter would probably not be a good idea since they would cover up the entire map :( Especially I wonder about the house icons with waves as they might be confusing since they look similar to the icon for ports.

Changed in widelands:
importance: Undecided → Wishlist
Revision history for this message
Astuur (wolfsteinmetz) wrote :

Yes, there are easier ways probably to simply stop the annoyance of missing the geologists' results,
and a real need does not exist, I agree.
I was thinking about an ideal solution this time, not about a quick solution with little effort.
If you truly start thinking of it, the build help seems like the right place to display the geologist's information.
Just like the info which size of house you can build in a certain spot, you need it, when you want to build and it is not in the way when you don't. And you could have the information that you have gathered permanently at your fingertips.
I tell you how this idea emerged: I like to play WL with my son and his frinds on the LAN. Lately we discovered that we have more fun to play the "no fog" starting condition and chat a bit while watching each other's progress. We have come to print out the map (without resources shown) and mark the spots we have already explored there. So I discovered that the band-aid of building unconnected mines, is suboptimal. For one thing, I like to build shortcuts through the mountains, and must take care not to connect those mines by accident, for another the spots close to the flag I used with the geologists can only be marked after the flag is gone, and that can only be when they have finished their work.
So this really is all a bit of a nuissance.
I think it's a smart and elegant way to do away with the band aids sourrounding geologist's exploration (and would have even solved the problem with the markings being visible for the enemies, that we had for a long time), but I fully acknowledge that this is a comfort feature, and unless some coder takes a fancy to this idea, it will probably never happen.
The signes themselves are just the "first ideas", and there are a lot more ways to display the info.
Hmm--- my "port possible" icons are _very_ different. They use use the old, green, square icon for large buildings and have an anchor overlayed, not waves.

Revision history for this message
Hans Joachim Desserud (hjd) wrote :

Sorry about comparing it to the port icon. I didn't actually check, just based it on memory. Still, both would contain waves.

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_aD (ad-simplypeachy) wrote :

I think that the resource discovery and mine placement logic does need discussion as it seems it affects and frustrates players. Widelands should not play itself but the players shouldn't find themselves doing things that they feel are not fun.

Forum post for discussion of problems and solutions: http://wl.widelands.org/forum/topic/1014/

Revision history for this message
SirVer (sirver) wrote :

Setting to incomplete for bug sweeping.

Changed in widelands:
status: New → Incomplete
Revision history for this message
Launchpad Janitor (janitor) wrote :

[Expired for widelands because there has been no activity for 60 days.]

Changed in widelands:
status: Incomplete → Expired
Revision history for this message
SirVer (sirver) wrote :

As food for thought: We could add a layer that displays the amount of resources (similar to the buildhelp) that have been surveyed. A mine could keep this updated - the miners are down there getting up to date info on a daily basis.

Problem is how to visualize the absence of information then, i.e. distinguish a non-surveyed field against an empty one.

Changed in widelands:
status: Expired → Incomplete
Revision history for this message
Launchpad Janitor (janitor) wrote :

[Expired for widelands because there has been no activity for 60 days.]

Changed in widelands:
status: Incomplete → Expired
SirVer (sirver)
Changed in widelands:
status: Expired → Confirmed
Revision history for this message
TiborB (tiborb95) wrote :

I think disappearing results of geologist survey is part of fun in widelands, so I would preserve it as it is now. If anything had to be changed I would extend lifetime of signs as suggested above.

Revision history for this message
GunChleoc (gunchleoc) wrote :

+1 to #11

Since I don't find the time to play a lot, I don't know what time would be appropriate. If I need them later, I always keep the messages in my inbox, because then I can still center the view on them ;)

Revision history for this message
kaputtnik (franku) wrote :

+1 for #11 and #12

Because this is a very old bug and i couldn't remember having similar topics or comments on widelands.org in the last year i set this to invalid. Feel free to change it again.

Changed in widelands:
status: Confirmed → Invalid
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