New log-out dialog looks horrible

Hi, thanks for your bug. I happen to be the one who designed this dialog :) But
of course I was not alone, you can check this thread :

http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2005-December/000056.html

and the ones that follow.

> 1) it's too large
> 2) the icons are too large

Why is that a problem ? It is only a few pixels larger than the previous one,
and fits prefectly on all screens. When it comes to dialogs, is it necessarily
"the smaller the better" ?

> 3) they are too wide spread

Considering there is no confirmation dialog after you click one of these
buttons, we should make it hard for one to "miss" his click. Is it so exhausting
to move your mouse a few more pixels ? :-p You can still use the accelerators,
by the way.

> 4) they look like pics, not buttons, it's all very "flat" and it's not obvious
> they are clickable.

Well, I guess the user might think that these pretty pictures must be here for
something... The firefox toolbar icons look just the same (no relief, but relief
appears when you hover. I think this looks nice). What would you suggest ?

> 5) the top 3 icons, at least their colours, really clash, they really don't
> integrate with Gnome at all. They look out of place, very Win XP /KDE/Child-ish.
> The one thing that really clashes, is the bright green of the first two icons.
> The lower 3 icons are much better, they look much cleaner and refined, and the
> colours are in tune with Gnome.

All these icons follow the tango guidelines : http://tango-project.org/
Needless to say, you are welcome to design new, more suitable icons if you like :)

> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2005-December/000056.html

Yeah I remember seeing a mock-up of the dialog on this list. Just couldn't
believe it would make it "as is" in Ubuntu !

> > 1) it's too large
> > 2) the icons are too large

> Why is that a problem ?

Well, it simply doesn't look consistent with the rest of the desktop.

> It is only a few pixels larger than the previous one,

The window you mean ? Dunno, but it sure looks too large. I am just talking of
the visual impact/effect it did on me, not actual dimensions ;-)
I think it's the fact that the buttons aren't outlined, so they don't "occupy"
teh space like a normal button would.

> and fits prefectly on all screens. When it comes to dialogs, is it necessarily
> "the smaller the better" ?

Of course not, but here it looked more like "the larger the better" ;-)

> > > 3) they are too wide spread
> > Considering there is no confirmation dialog after you click one of these
> buttons, we should make it hard for one to "miss" his click.

Well, if you put normal / outlined buttons, one would easily see where the
frontier is between two buttons.. SEEING the active area of a button... THAT
would make it easier to select the right button ;-)

> Is it so exhausting to move your mouse a few more pixels ? :-p

It's not exhausting, but it feels weird that the GUI rules suddenly change when
I am about to log-out. This creates surprise, doubt, which in turn can make the
user make a mistake, despite that's what you were trying to avoid in the first
place I understand ;-)
In short : UI consistency is the best way to help the user be confident in using
the GUI, meaning less errors and "stress".

> You can still use the accelerators, by the way.

Oops, I think you mistook me for a power user ! I am just a very normal user who
simply was very surprised to see that this new dialog looked so inconsistent
with his desktop, nothing more.... nothing less ;-)

> > > 4) they look like pics, not buttons, it's all very "flat" and it's not obvious
> > they are clickable.
>
> Well, I guess the user might think that these pretty pictures must be here for
> something... The firefox toolbar icons look just the same (no relief, but relief
> appears when you hover. I think this looks nice).

Precisely, Firefox is harldy a Gnome application, definitely not sometihng to
take as reference point for Gnome desktop integration !

> What would you suggest ?

I was happy when I read that the dialog would be revisited, but at the same
time, I didn't think it needed much change.
For example, if just use the same dialog, but replace the radio button with
large buttons ("Normal"/Gnome buttons... ;-), that would be a good start, maybe
even sufficient.

> > 5) the top 3 icons, at least their colours, really clash, they really don't
> > integrate with Gnome at all. They look out of place, very Win XP /KDE/Child-ish.
> > The one thing that really clashes, is the bright green of the first two icons.
> > The lower 3 icons are much better, they look much cleaner and refined, and the
> > colours are in tune with Gnome.
>
> All these icons follow the tango guidelines : http://tango-project.org/

I think that...

> > Well, I guess the user might think that these pretty pictures must be here for
> > something... The firefox toolbar icons look just the same (no relief, but relief
> > appears when you hover. I think this looks nice).
>
> Precisely, Firefox is harldy a Gnome application, definitely not sometihng to
> take as reference point for Gnome desktop integration !

What about evolution ? gedit ? eog ? gthumb ? gnome-meeting ? serpentine ? gaim
(dialog window) ? etc. Are none of them Gnome Applications ? :)

> > What would you suggest ?
>
> I was happy when I read that the dialog would be revisited, but at the same
> time, I didn't think it needed much change.

I do. Two screenshots here :

    http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu/#logout_dialog

Look at me in the eye and tell me the previous one looked better :-p

> I didn't mean to start a "war"

No problem, suggestions are always welcome as far as I am concerned :)

I will try other solutions, for icon design/spacing for example.

Ok, the discussion goes on about this on bug #28798 : marking this bug as a duplicate. Feel free to post your comments on the other bug report.